Do Euro 348's have CEL lights? | FerrariChat

Do Euro 348's have CEL lights?

Discussion in '348/355' started by RMP348, Dec 24, 2006.

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  1. RMP348

    RMP348 Karting

    Dec 18, 2006
    130
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    It seems that I don't have any CEL on my cluster when turning the igntion on.

    I have read that some Euro cars don't have CEL.

    Is this correct?

    Rocco
     
  2. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    Wrong.

    Euro cars have CELs. What they don't have is the capability for the owners to pull the codes, via the button next to the ecus.
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways
    Do you have two good light bulbs in the CEL sockets? It's just two phillips screws to remove the gauge console for a quick look...
     
  4. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
    683
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Drew H.
    #4 dasadrew, Dec 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. RMP348

    RMP348 Karting

    Dec 18, 2006
    130
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    I pulled the cluster and there were 2 white bulb holders with no bulbs where the engine lights were. I put 2 bulbs in and now the CELs work.

    I just have to wait to drive it to make sure they don't come on!!


    What exactly triggers the CEL on this model of Motronic? I know a bad o2, or TPS but anything else?

    And another thing is my slow down light for bank 5-8 doesn't come on with iginition on even with a good buld in it.

    Is the slow down light even that important?
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    You did well to add the CEL bulbs! Now you've got U.S. diagnostics functionality (though you may have to buy the button and cable for each ECU to get the codes displayed).

    Yes, the SLOW DOWN lights are important if you have cats on your exhaust, as this is your warning to not catch your car on fire.

    An automatic fire extinguisher such as Fire Foe is just $130, by the way. I've got one in my engine bay and recommend having at least fire extinguisher.

    Your CEL's show you that your ECU self-test was successful each morning when you start up your 348, monitor your MAFs, TPS's, phase sensor, rpm sensor, crank sensors, O2's, exhaust ECU's, carbon fuel fumes recycler, etc.
     
  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways
    Drew, my check engine 1-4 and 5-8 lights are between #8 and #9, rather than as displayed on your diagram.
     
  8. RMP348

    RMP348 Karting

    Dec 18, 2006
    130
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    But why does only the 1-4 slow down light come on when ignition on? What could be the cause of this? The bulb is good

    Maybe I will just hollow the cats!! LOL
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    I would think that your 5-8 exhaust ECU is either disconnected or faulty. It's just two bolts to remove it to swap it with your 1-4 exhaust ecu. Do that to see if your dash lights switch.
     
  10. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    Okay now I'm confused? I have seen posts in the past were owners of Euro cars got a CEL, and they were asking how to pull the codes.

    When you put the key in the ignition, and then turn it to the on position, but not start the car, do the check engine lights illuminate?
     
  11. RMP348

    RMP348 Karting

    Dec 18, 2006
    130
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    Now they do with bulbs in it.. There were just white buld holders in the CEL spots before!

    When I turn ignition on the light uo, I start the car and they go away!


    The exhaust ECU is plugged in, I will swap them and see if the 5-8 bank lights up with ignition on!
     
  12. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
    683
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Drew H.
    You're not the only one confused here, ernie! No, they don't illuminate on my car. The info in this thread is developing along the lines "if you want CEL's in a european 348, then just fit the bulbs!" It doesn't seem to add up. Why would Ferrari go to the trouble of removing the bulbs and writing an extra note in the Owner's Handbook just to inhibit a functionality which is equipped into the car?

    Above all, considering the car when it was new, this functionality could have prevented serious warranty work on Ferrari's part, and generated some additional Main Dealer work chasing ghosts in the machine!
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    Well the only thing I can think of is that, Ferrari was not required to have the self diagnosis that was manditory for the cars coming to the U.S. I guess it was just easier for them not to put bulbs in the Euro cars.

    So if you have the bulbs in now, I'm wondering if you can pull the codes? I know that there isn't a button, but if my memory serves my correct, the button is a plug and play device.

    Hmmmmmm?????
     
  14. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
    683
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Drew H.
    Be interesting to see RMP348's experience.

    Are the lights 'reliable' ? When the Tornado bomber went into service, it had a complex warning system which, in turn, produced lots of spurious warnings and had the aircraft on ground forever. The solution? Black plastic 'boots' were made to slip onto the LED's so the spurious warnings couldn't be seen. It was more effective to have one undetected real failure than 100 strips due to false detections!

    Are those push-button activators available as a spare or can they be rigged up with a soldering iron?
     
  15. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    You know I'll have to take a look in the morning and let you know later.
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    I haven't disassembled mine (though I suspect it is just a momentary contact switch), but for sure you can do it if you order the spares. You'll need to order two parts: tester cable 146196 and button 145810.
     
  17. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
    683
    Germany
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    Drew H.
    Thanks ND. Just checked prices and the parts are as cheap as buttons! Might just order them up for a bit of fun!
     
  18. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,696
    My '92 Euro car does have the Check Engine Lights. From memory, I think they illuminate briefly on startup, but I may be wrong. I did have a short period where one came on and cut a bank of cylinders. I was actually recommended to remove the cat sensors, but the car cured itself and they've not come on since.

    Jonathan
     
  19. dasadrew

    dasadrew Formula Junior

    Aug 1, 2004
    683
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Drew H.
    That's quite remarkable as the 1992 348ts owner's manual from the FOC site also says these lights are not used!

    The symptoms and proposed cure you mention is familiar for me for the Slow Down lights.
     
  20. RMP348

    RMP348 Karting

    Dec 18, 2006
    130
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    Does anyone have an exhaust ECU for sale?

    Rocco
     
  21. dapper

    dapper Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    711
    Bristol, UK
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Ernie,

    I reckon your hunch may be spot on, the ECU buttons look to be indeed a plug and play.

    The Euro (my UK definitely) has ECU flying lead 'bunged sockets', but no mini harness and switch (I use the term harness lightly as its just a short cable and switch on each side). The harness/buttons are shown in Eurospares parts listing here in UK for just a few pounds, wether they'd have them available to sell who knows. I was tempted to get a pair of them and install them during my recent engine out, didn't bother in the end.

    So to another threader, it wasn't so much the cost of two bulbs in the dash they were saving, but also a pair of these leads and switches per Rest of world vehicle, I guess that adds up to a few million Lira.
     
  22. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,696
    Doh. You are right, of course. I have got the two confused. I'll shut up...

    Jonathan
     
  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    Well then I guess, the only real way to test this out is to, plug in the button and see if you can get the ecu to flash the codes.
     
  24. bigwave92107

    bigwave92107 Karting

    Oct 6, 2009
    155
    raised from the depths...

    has anyone tested if replacing the bulbs allows you to see the codes?
     
  25. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,548
    Ontario, Canada
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    Mike
    Euro cars don't have the Slow Down lights
     

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