The Latest BB/BBi Rim & Rubber Debate Thread

A rocket scientist would be the last person I would ask about a boxer differential carrier but if I needed info on solid rocket fuel boosters I wouldnt ask a lawyer. If you were having a traction problem in your boxer and switching to a fatter or stickier tire solved that problem or you increased engine torque (like in a TR) then I would be concerned but that isnt the case.

 

FYI, I've been a lawyer by profession since I was 27 years old...but, I worked on my own motorcycles and cars since I was 13 years old... And, even though you may very well be correct...I just don't see the benefit... for me anyway as it will also take away from the hiked up rear fender menacing look of the Boxer...report back to us after a few thousand miles with the fatter rubber...good luck..

 

So? What you just told the world tells me you are not qualified to make the prognosis you did but then again even a blind squirrel finds the odd acorn. If a diff pops im sure you will be the first to say I told you so even if its unrelated and thanks for the biography. Im not buying the rims since I havent seen the finished product on a boxer to see if I like the look.

 

We have a club member from Sarasota with two Boxers, both have upgraded wheels and tires, 18" specifically, both cars lowered. Stock transaxles. Cars are driven constantly, no problems. I do not know what the rest of you do with your Boxers, but myself and this fellow club member just drive our cars on the street. I do not intend to leave strips of rubber anywhere as that does not prove anything, nor would I track a stock Boxer.

I am sure Franklin is correct about the less than desireable transaxle on the Boxer and early TR's, but for normal sane street driving, I do not think larger rims and wheels will cause any harm.

I would differ with the comment as to the hiked up menacing look of the Boxer, especially with stock rims/tires. To me it looks more like the engine has been removed and the suspension is unnaturally lifted. Menacing is what the rear looks like after the car was lowered to a more normal ride height appearance. Certainly this is a personal taste situation.

 

I guess I grew up in the days of traction bars and late night drag racing so the hiked up rear end looks good to me...plus, how could anyone think that they could improve on the appearance of a beautiful Boxer? Call me nuts, but I believe Pininfarina's design skills are better than mine or of any other FChatters...it has been my experience that lowering cars is what the low rider crowd does...not classic Ferrari owners...ever seen a lowered 250GTO at Pebble Beach?

 

No, but then I never saw a 250GTO that sat so disproportionately high as does a Boxer. The GTO sits as it should for racing. The Boxer is always lowered to go racing. And I do think lowering improves the look of most modern Ferraris. My rule of thumb is that the space between the tire and wheel well should be equal all the way around.

I disagree with your comment about low riders and classic Ferraris, there is a big difference to the method and purpose in both cases. I asked Andrea Pininfarina last August why the car sat so high, and he said that was Ferrari's decision, the original design did not sit so high. Nor should it. BTW, the Boxer is one of his favorite designs of all time.

 

Hi gang,down here the CARB group do 1,000 mile weekend runs for me I'm going back to the old Michelins for that reason,have been running a set of Goodrich comp/ta R1s,left over from my Mustang semi wet tyre choice.
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I asked Andrea Pininfarina last August why the car sat so high, and he said that was Ferrari's decision, the original design did not sit so high. Nor should it. BTW, the Boxer is one of his favorite designs of all time.[/QUOTE]


How cool to have that conversation! Of course Enzo made the decision, but did Pininfarina know the reason? I have really struggled with this ride height debate, long before I ever owned the car. Bottom line is that I haven't changed anything, but Ron's just looks right to me.

 

Im always amazed by the ride quality though and thats keeping me from lowering mine. I hate how lowered cars compromise many things and to see the boxer bob down the road like a ricer gives me the chills. I guess if they were adjustable one could mess around with it to get it just right then I wouldnt have to wear my ball cap on sideways when I drove it.

 

Many boxers sit improperly high. Apprently you need to let the suspension settle before tightening the shock bolts and this must be done when the car is sitting on the weels otherwise it sits high.

The rear diff carrier gets more shot by abrupt shifts and rapid engine braking than anything else. Testarossas had more weight power and tire and most held up. I have heard of stock boxers blowing diffs. My car has had modern rubber for 2 years and about 3k mi with no probs. But then youi never know it is going to happen untill BANG.

I believe that like lambo with the countach ferrari would have preferred to fit low profile tires from the beginning but they were not available. When lambo and porche went to the p7 ferrari went to metric michelis which technicaly sounded interesting but are actualy crap.

The difference in driving dynamics with modern rubber is so huge it is like going from a bias ply to a radial. I vote for 17in rims to keep a similar profile look to stock, wheels also weigh more than rubber. A slight reduction in ride height is no biggie. Ferrari designed the car to operate on the street parking lots etc. As weekend car sitting a little low is no big deal.

Modern rubber will require new bushings as the old ones are more than likly clapped and the enhanced grip will cause the old bushings to flex more making the car feel like it has a loss of directional stability. New bushings and the correct alignment and for the street nothing is really coing to outhandle you, nor is the essence of the boxer driving experience(the car feels live) lost.

Of course there is always the diff carrier worry in any boxer so at my next eo it will be replaced with an upgraded unit just for peace of mind.

 

Paul, I live in south Florida. It's relatively flat, the roadways are usually good to very good in smoothness. So my experience may not apply to other locations. I have been using competition suspensions since 1970 to lower virtually every car I have owned. Maybe I am the original low rider. Started with a new '69 427 Stingray, on to VW Rabbits, 911's, and Audis, now my Boxer. I even had special springs made for a series of supercharged Pontiac GTP's that applied everything I learned about lowering cars. The last GTP with 18" OZ's and 1.5" sway bars pissed off many Porsche owners on interstate exit ramps.

So when I had Carobu in Costa Mesa lower the Boxer, I was initially concerned about ride quality, and the fear that the car would look like something from south Phoenix (where I used to live) when it hit bumpy roads. To their credit, they set up the Boxer so it feels like it came from the factory this way. No undulating, no "bobing", just a great ride. I even had the new springs spec'd to be 15% stiffer than stock to match the new adjustable Konis.

If you follow the same formula that I did, you will realize how a Boxer was meant to handle and ride. Stock is good, what I have is great. With modern wheels and tires, I can't imagine.

 

How cool to have that conversation! Of course Enzo made the decision, but did Pininfarina know the reason? I have really struggled with this ride height debate, long before I ever owned the car. Bottom line is that I haven't changed anything, but Ron's just looks right to me.[/QUOTE]


I was very fortunate to meet Mr. Pininfarina while at the unveiling of the P4/5 at Pebble Beach last August. Actually, he was laughing at my "Ferrari" red sport coat and that started the conversation. Maybe it was the white shorts I was wearing, not sure. I have James Glickenhaus to thank for the opportunity to be ina place that I could meet Mr. Pininfarina. It even got me an invitation to the Pininfarina facility in Italy. He did not know exactly why the production Boxer sits so high.

I suggest that everyone buy a Ferrari red sport coat and hopefully you too will meet someone like Andrea Pininfarina. If you do not mind looking like a clown to do so.

As for lowering the Boxer, see my post above responding to Paul. I kept the original springs and my shocks are adjustable. I can go back to stock if I feel like I need to have the SUV look.

 

If you will do a Google search you will find photos of the 365GT4/BB prototype that clearly show the rear fenders high over the wheels just like the later production models...

 

I'm not sure where you can drive a Boxer on the street and really notice a significant benefit from lowering and suspension mods. I'm sure you can make handling improvements on most any car, but where does it end? You can keep making mods until lo and behold you have a "race car".
I'm just a purist and believe while no manufacturer is perfect, the beauty of any car is to experience it with all it's flaws, and within the context of it's contemporaries. It gives you the perspective of just how automobiles progress technically over time.
And anyway I think making all those changes voids your warranty with the Ferrari Classiche program, or whatever they call it.
Scott

 

I have to look at my car. I want it to look right. The lowered Boxer looks like it should have, at least to me, with proportionate spacing between the fender and tire. I really could not give a rats ass about Ferrari's Classiche program. They just want my money, they do not have to look at the car.

You do notice the lower center of gravity on entry/exit ramps to the Interstates.

 

Damn these cars look good in Black!
So what brand and size tires?
Now if you'd just get her a little lower
John

 

Ron:
The Ferrari Classiche comment I made was "tongue in cheek". You are right, we are viewed by Ferrari as just another source of income.
Scott

 

You mean. . . . .Ferrari Classiche doesn't really love us and think we're special ??
I'm just......shattered. Shocked, even.

buzzm2005, I like the options that Carobu offers, but if the F40 style wheels were one-piece like we need for the Boxers and Daytonas (and offered for stoopid $$$$ by Neez, IIRC), most here would already be all over them. If the overly-busy 3-piece mega-bolt units had much appeal to more of us, this thread wouldn't exist......again. Maybe Carobu could contract with Neez....hhmmmmmm.

 

The fender to tire spacing is proportionate...you just need to remember the Boxer is a early 70s design that was produced through the mid 80s...its not a late 90s to current era low profile wheel/tire design car...

 

http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Avon/AVCR6ZZ.shtml

These are great 15" DOT radials. I have them on my Cobra.

 

cheers lew!

i had a nice ride w/ my boxer and a terrific gentleman w/ a true 66 427 cobra last night. he was the original wner of the car and it was all original w/ the exception of paint done in 1984 by cobra restorers (GA).

i told him of my kirkham pursuit and he was VERY complimentary of the recreation. i hope you are enjoying your cobra!!

pcb

 

While I like my Michelin TRX rubber just fine...has anyone ever tried the TRX metric size tires from Avon on their BB512i? I know Avon used to make them, but I don't know if they still are...

 

Thanks Peter. The car is dialed in so well now! What a huge difference. (I thought that it was geat before.) These tires were a big help over the previous Yoko's.