biondetti ferrari-jaguar | FerrariChat

biondetti ferrari-jaguar

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by tongascrew, Jul 12, 2007.

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  1. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #1 tongascrew, Jul 12, 2007
    i haven't been able to come up with much about this 166 which was fitted with a XK120 engine and raced only twice[i think] in the september 1950 italian GP at monza and the mille miglia of 1951.i have a couple of pictures of the car and some race result info but not much else. if any one has anything on this car or can give me the build/chassis number that would be great. i assume it had a life after Biondetti was finished with it and built his C-type repro car. tongascrew [email protected]
     
  2. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #2 dretceterini, Jul 12, 2007
    I remember seeing the car about 20-25 years ago at a dealer that no longer exists in west Los Angeles. I don't know, however, how much of the car was period and how much was recreation.
     
  3. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    #3 Bertocchi, Jul 12, 2007
    At Christmas I purchased a biography on Biondetti for a friend from Abbruzzi.
    The book was in Italian. Very comprehensive. You might check with the book store in Milan.
    Liberia della Automobil I think.
     
  4. trashidelek!

    trashidelek! Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2004
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    #4 trashidelek!, Jul 12, 2007
    The car is also discussed in Anthony Pritchard's new Mille Miglia book.
     
  5. Sire Bruno de Losckley

    Sire Bruno de Losckley Formula 3

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    #5 Sire Bruno de Losckley, Jul 13, 2007
  6. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

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    #6 t walgamuth, Jul 13, 2007
    It seems like the jag lump would be a lot heavier than a ferrari motor. The handling must have been a little tricky in the tiny Ferrari
     
  7. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

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    #7 t walgamuth, Jul 13, 2007
    It seems like the jag lump would be a lot heavier than a ferrari motor. The handling must have been a little tricky in the tiny Ferrari 166.

    Tom W
     
  8. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #8 tongascrew, Jul 13, 2007
    hi, thanks for the posts. "sire bruno" i have the monza photo and also a close-up of the car with the hood removed and the jag engine clearly shown.."bertocchi" if you get a chance and can contact your friend with the biondetti bio and ask him what info there is about this car in the book.i have no italian. if i could get the chassis number for this car i could probably dig up more info. i wonder if there is anyone out there who could cantact Marcel M . he probably has info on this car. thanks again george tongascrew
     
  9. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #9 Michael Muller, Jul 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    From an earlier post of mine:

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  10. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    #10 bigodino, Jul 14, 2007
    I have s/n 07 in my files for this car. I think this number was given at the Coys auction at Silverstone in 1995.
     
  11. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #11 Michael Muller, Jul 14, 2007
    At that auction the car was sold at GBP 36.500, is there anybody around believing that this would have been paid for a genuine Spyder Corsa chassis? Even the bodywork would have fetched more in case it had been original.
     
  12. Michael Muller

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    #12 Michael Muller, Jul 14, 2007
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  13. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #13 Michael Muller, Jul 14, 2007
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  14. Sire Bruno de Losckley

    Sire Bruno de Losckley Formula 3

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    #14 Sire Bruno de Losckley, Jul 15, 2007

    24/4/49: Mille Miglia
    Gabriele Besana/Franco Cortese, do not finish
     
  15. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #15 tongascrew, Jul 15, 2007
    hi thanks for the postings." bigodino" the problem with chassis 07 is that it is a number for a formular car and the biondetti car is clearly a two seater. the picture from monza shows the car with a tonneau cover over the passanger seat. or did you mean 007? "michael Muller" thanks for your pictures. they are both of 002? i have copies of many new and old photos of 002 but not these which will be added to my file on this car. i would tend to agree with you that biondetti may have used numerous different parts for the chassis, some of which could have come from the factory and the basanas accounting for the claim that a ferrari chassis was used. this is a very interesting topic and if anyone else out there has any info please let us know.. it would appear this is the first ferrari replicar. tongascrew
     
  16. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #16 Michael Muller, Jul 15, 2007
    @ tongascrew

    The 1st picture shows the Biondetti Special, the 2nd #002C, and the 3rd the car which I consider a replica of the Biondetti Special.

    Please read my posting, definitively NO Ferrari chassis has been used for this special, and by no means that of #002C!!
    What in my opinion IS used was the bodywork of #002C which was surplus after 002C received a new roadster body by Motto.

    Clearly the different front axle layout between 002C and the Biondetti Special.
     
  17. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #17 GIOTTO, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another photo at the Mille-Miglia 1990.
    I have the following in my files:
    -GP Italia, Monza 1950
    -Giro di Sicilia 1951
    -Gara Firenze-Fiesole
    -Mille-Miglia 1951 (new Jaguar engine W1147)
    -Corsa del gran San-Bernardo 1951
    -Giro delle calabrie 1951
    -Corsa Bologna-Raticosa 1951
    -Corsa Catania-Etna 1951
    -Imported in GB by George GAFT in 1959
    -Later owned by Gianfranco SEVERI and Umberto MARCON
    Hope it can help.
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  18. JLDavier

    JLDavier Karting

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    #18 JLDavier, Jul 16, 2007
    Look at “Red Arrows” page 34 photograph number 2 and "All Ferraris at the MM" - same book - page 200, third thumbnail.
     
  19. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

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    #19 t walgamuth, Jul 16, 2007
    This may have already been posted and I missed it but the car pictured in post nine has a different nose than the car just above. The car in nine has a more round nose and has space around the grill.

    The car just above has a shape to the nose that reminds me of the Kougar, I think that is the name, a sort of replicar built in England in the last twenty years or so based on modern Jag running gear.

    It looks as if the car just above has a Ferrari emblem on the nose.

    Interesting thread, thanks to all.

    Tom W
     
  20. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #20 Michael Muller, Jul 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Let's first compare the Biondetti Special with the 166 Inter Spyder Corsa #002C.

    The first photo below shows the Biondetti Special, the next one #002C in its original form. Later the nose has been changed to the eggcrate grille as posted by me in #12. For me the bodywork is the same, except that a new bonnet has been fitted, and the radiator cutout has been increased for more airflow. Also the rear part looks different, possibly shorter.

    The bodywork of the modern car is different, and obviously a bad copy.
    The Ferrari badge on the replica is a sacrilege, and it would be nonsens even on the real Biondetti Special. But it's always a good way to catch a Mille Miglia entry...!
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  21. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #21 Michael Muller, Jul 16, 2007
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  22. 121 LM

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    #22 121 LM, Jul 16, 2007
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  23. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #23 tongascrew, Jul 16, 2007
    hi, more great pictures and info. thanks so much. after looking more carefully at michael muller's photo of DR 70453 i noticed the following [1] tops of two SU carbs protruding thru the hood and the two intake openings just below for the SUs[2]opening top center of the hood to access filler cap for the header tank[3] rack and pinion steering arm coming out forward of the A arms[4]slightly longer nose cone than on the original car[5] the original car had no Ferrari nose badge.[6]all original ferrari cycle fender two seater corsa cars had some kind of hood scoop for the the carb intake which this car dosen't have because of the side draft SUs. the rack and pinion steering arm was the first clue that this may not car may not be original and is a reproduction. if this is a reproduction and they did such a good job you wonder why an original type steering system was not used. the best photo i have can be accessed at www.F1rejects.com/drivers/biondetti/large/50-F1-monza-2.jpg. this photo shows the front of the car with the hood removed. keep the ifo/pictures coming!! tongascrew
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 Napolis, Jul 16, 2007
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  25. Michael Muller

    Michael Muller Formula Junior

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    #25 Michael Muller, Jul 16, 2007
    Again, even the original Biondetti Special used no Ferrari parts despite (in my belief) the bodywork. Chassis and driving train was a blend of Maserati, Jaguar, and parts made by resp. for Biondetti.

    The replica is again different from the original Biondetti Special, possibly due to lack of information / photos when created.

    If the bodywork would be original, I believe Jim would buy the whole car only for that purpose....!

    Acc. to my information after 1999 the car was not again accepted by the MM Storica organizers.
     
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