I'm fed up with my 308's lack of AC!!

I think there's no question that you can improve the A/C system. It's just a matter of time, money and imagination along with physical space limitations of the car. If someone on FChat had already done this I assume they would have spoken up by now. Maybe you will be the first. Personally, I've recently removed my entire A/C up to the expansion valve, to save weight and improve access to the engine for maintenance. I've got a GTS and almost always drive with the top off. Anyway, I prefer to drive my car in the early morning or in the evening when there is not so much sunlight/heat (and it doesn't get so hot here as in some locations). Getting out of a cool/cold car into hot, humid weather is not so great either unless you're going directly into an A/C cooled building.

 

Try doing the following modification (but suited to your 308):
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123276

BT

 

It's interesting that he used a 308 condenser to replace his 348 one, for size (capacity) reasons. I had the same thoughts, but since I was starting with a 308, to either go up to something larger, or add a second one.

I'll take some measurements this weekend to see what, if anything is possible. To add a second one - to perform a pre-cooling function to offload some of the load on the stock condenser - I have two thoughts. One, taken from my friend's Pantera, put a small condenser in the engine bay with an electric fan and shroud. There is some space in the 308 engine bay, but the ambient heat may null any effect. The second is, change the front spoiler to a deep chin style, in an attempt to maybe gain some space for a larger or 2nd condenser.

Phil

 

My AC works great with 134a. I changed the following: Replaced all ac lines with modern hose, Replaced expansion valve and receiver dryer (all off the shelf stuff from NAPA), Replaced Compressor with Sanden Rotary, Air Conditioning is as good as any modern car. I swear. A buddy of mine wanted the AC in his GTB going again. We did the same thing to his car and found he had a bad condensor. No big deal we installed an aftermarket condensor that will fit a buick grandnational so I was told. I think it was a standard Universal condensor.

Yes it is true that the evap and cond are more suited to R-12 but I will tell you this, the area to be concerned with is the cond. Getting rid of the heat is the key to cold 134a. Don't bother with the evaporator unless it is leaking. Larger more effecient Condensor, mondern compressor, and new exp valve and rec dryer, I promise you will have ice cold air cond in your 308. If your original condensor is fine keep using. it.

If you have a lack of air coming out of the vents the first thing to check is dust and dirt on the blower cage. Clean them and see the difference.

PM if you want part numbers ECT>

Joe Frazar

 

Use the left hand unit here http://www.classicair.com/Catalog/Un...ge%2017-18.pdf

 

Man, Joe, I think you may be on to something. redo a 308 with R143a with just an enlarged cond/expansion valve.....TOO MUCH! Too good to be true? Thing is, what is Dr. Tommy gonna say about this....LOL!

PS: did you have to add a bigger cond fan too? Did that expansion valve go into the evap? or somewhere else? Just trying to stay edjukatid.......

 

Your link got truncated... would you post it again corrected?

 

If my memory serves me correctly. The Expansion valve goes to something like a mazada 323 - nothing special. All of the 308 stuff is off the shelf ac parts. All is in the same place as stock. The only real diff for 134a is the fact that is runs at higher preasures. These preasures creat more heat on the high side. A larger - let me correct that a more effecient modern condensor does a better job of lowering the heat. Understand that in my personal car I am running the stock condensor. My friend in his gtb is running a converted one. Narrow flat tubes vs. fat round ones on the stock one. The rotary compressor also makes a huge diff.

Joe Frazar

 

OK try this it just worked for me

http://www.classicair.com/Catalog/Univ%20Cat%20-%20Page%2017-18.pdf

 

So, to get a more statistical evaluation, it would be nice to know what the differential temperature is between the air going into your blower motor, in the cab of course, under the dash, and that of the exiting air temp at the vents. Simple and quick to do with a thermometer. Should be 25 deg F or more for GOOD cooling. If you are getting around 18-20 deg, not so good. THAT would be the reason for the gripes of many R134a conversions. I am glad for you.

 

Not sure if anyone mentioned this or not, my ADD kicked in and I am not reading this whole thread. You can replace the 6CFM stock compressor with a 10CFM compressor that is a direct bolt in. Just ask for a York R210R compressor, and it is an easy 40% increase in volume to move through the system.

Before I do anything though, I would check the temperature coming out of the vents, if it is in the mid 30's then there is some other problem. Dont forget the greenhouse effect from that huge windshield and also don't forget there are 2 main water tubes that run down the center of the console inside the car that may radiate some heat. Also good to note that if your heater cores get hot then there will always be some heat trying to enter through the vent system, even though your levers may be shut off. The cores should stay cool after a good run with the heat shut off to insure they are not a problem.

Good luck.

 

My thoughts are that size matters. So it is total volume and surface area that counts. Also from what I have read you need a larger volume system for 134A vs. R12. So I am convinced that if you want present technology you need to go with a larger condensor , evaporator and a more efficent compressor. If you make these changes I thing you can greatly improve the system. But like all things you need time and $'s to do this. I converted to 134A when my compressor died. In my part of the country it is sufficent for the few really hot days but for you folks in the hot lands I can understand the need for an ice maker type of system. So good luck and keep us posted on how you improve. Enjoy the ride

 

This is getting complicated...I might just wait til winter to go for a drive.

 

Keep going Rob,

when you get the solution nailed down 308/328 owners the world over (well at least those who live in the Bahamas/ FL etc....) will be thanking you.

And more importantly prospective 308/328 owners who are in part holding back because they live in the Bahamas (hmmn I wonder who?) and feel a 308 as a daily driver without AC would be insanity will be flying you over for one heck of a party...

so...

keep going Rob.

Just imagine a carbed 308 with ice cold AC. Go Rob... Great thread.

 

Hi guys,

I'm glad someone has taken the initiative here. I haven't had a chance to do anything with mine.

Overall capacity of the system can also be increased by using a sub-cooler. Check this site out. http://www.rennaire.com/

They have a couple of great articles on the a/c.

Hal

 

I just converted my 308 GTSi over to the Darkside of 134a............

My father-in-law converted all the trucks where I work over to 134a last summer. This summer, still no problems and everything is working good. He told me to by a conversion kit from NAPA. Said it would be real easy and it will work fine. He told me that the A/C system in the 308 is in no way different than the trucks at work and that the stories about 134a are just that stories.

I Bought a conversion kit from NAPA for $50.00. Easy to convert. Kit comes with new valves and 3 cans of 134a plus a pressure gauge and valve.

I removed all the remaining R12 from the port in the front compartment next to the Dryer. Real easy, just remove the cap and all the gas will escape. Next I Installed the conversion kit and filled with 134a. All it took was one can to get system pressure on the suction side to reach 45 psi per the instructions. The system is working great and the air is very cold. I will post if there appears to be a problem but for now, everything is great.

Went for a drive today. Outside temp was maybe 95°F. THe A/C was blowing cold the entire time and worked perfect.

Stay Tuned.

Jeff

 

Jeff,
What about:
1) releasing R12 into the atmosphere? Isn't that illegal?

2) Looks like you didn't vacuum the old oil out, replace drier and expansion valve, and then introduce 134a oil into the system. As I understood it, this could be problematic to parts of the system (o-rings/seals!)

??

Greg

 

my thoughts exactly........

 

I should have maybe explained better.

The system had very little R12 in it. When I bought the car the A/C did not work because of a leak. I found the leak at the compressor. The hard line that attaches to the compressor top was loose. We found it while doing a vacuum leak down.

Next, all the old oil had been removed and what ever was left came out during the test so the system was empty and had been for a very long time. I tightened the loose conection and installed the new fittings and charged it with the R134a and now it works perfect. If I were going to do this on another car, I would do much the same thing. Remove the compressor and inspect it, Pull a vacuum for a least 2 hours and install the kit.

As far as the Dryer, It appears to be fine and next year when I recharge the system, I will replace it with one from GT Auto Parts.

Jeff

 

I converted when I had to replace the compressor. I did the York unit because I did not hear of the Sanyo conversion. The replacement compressor I got from NAPA was charged with oil compatable for both R12 and 134A. I vacuum pumped the system for 24 hrs and then replaced the reciever/dryer and checked again for leaks. Charged with 134 to the 80% level and verified pressure on the gages and checked vent temps. System runs fine when the car has been in a garage or in the shade. Cool down is fairly quick. If sitting in the sun on +90 days the greenhouse warming takes more time to cool the car down. But after 4-5 miles it becomes liveable. So considering I only need to use AC maybe 5-10 times during the year it is no problem. I usually drive my car every day unless it is raining and so far I bet I haven't turned on the AC more then 4 times since March. If I ever need to replace the compressor again I'll go the Sanyo route. The Yorks take a lot of drag on the motor and the Sanyo looks to be more efficent. So enjoy the ride.

 

You should need at least two cans and the low side pressure should be closer to 25psi.

 

Same problem I had with my 1990 mond. I replaced all of the above and it ran cold for a few months in humid n.y. in august. I called my buddy who is an AC expert who put some dye in the system and just as he predicted, there were numerous "micro holes" in the AC hose that runs from the compressor in the rear to the condensor in the front. [Hence the reason it took months to lose the ice cold blast felt when he originally replaced the obvious parts.] Being the good friend that he is, he removed the hose and oem fittings and had a replacement hose made to order using akk oem fittings. Needless to say, a BIT of labor removing and replacing the hose.

Alas, if you want it done right, you must replace that 20 y/0 hose as part of the upgrade. My 12 y/o son now complains that it is too cold!