At it again, new windscreen and fix the dash shrinkage. | FerrariChat

At it again, new windscreen and fix the dash shrinkage.

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by uzz32soarer, Jul 1, 2008.

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  1. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    #1 uzz32soarer, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well whilst the car is off the road having the KE Jetronic system checked over, it was time to replace the windscreen following a summer stone barrage. Ferrari italy took three months to send the correct screen, which was right the third time around. Even with the VIN number they couldn't get it right. My car has a bronze tinted screen with ceramic dots at the top and no tinted band accross the top.

    Anyway, to do a screen properly you need to remove every skerrick of eurothene (speling?) from the window chanel, which involves a good 4 - 5 hours of nasty labour with a sharp chisel and rotary wire buffs on a die grinder or dremel. Once that's done the car needs to be off to the panel shop and have the chanels repainted ready for the screen fittment. Also, if you have a genuine screen with the twin radio antennae's in the centre, and a radio fitted, you will need to remove the dash to get that plug down and into the radio.

    Seems that 99% of Testa's have some dash shrinkage around the vent holes at the base of the windscreen so it was a good oportunity to repair this as well.

    Here's a question for you USA owners, right smack in the midst of Summer. My car drives me nuts when driving into a late afternoon sun. Visibility is so bad due to reflection on the windscreen from the black leather dash, and mostly from the flat slab surface on the top of the instrument binacle.

    I was considering getting the flat section with the vent shrinkage recovered in a fine knapped black suede or even steal a bit of BMW Alcantra. This would be easy to maintain, just blow off the dust with the compressor, never need leather feeding and wouldn't reflect the sun.

    Problem remains what to do with the top of the instrument cluster.

    Has anyone redone their dashes and if so, what did you use. Pics would also be handy.

    Not much left when they are down this far:
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  2. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,402
    Alabama (was Mich.)
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    Jeff
    Shiver-Me-Timbers Robert !!!! What have you done!

    I commend you going that far into the car. This is a good topic to bring up. The dash in my car needs recovered also. Your ideas on using Alcantara and/or suede are good ones. The large dash piece (crescent shaped - with vent holes) that goes up to the windshield and back under the glove box top piece, radio pod top piece, and instrument cluster is all that needs recoverd for my car. This panel had deteriorated in my car to a very bad state, so bad in fact that I was able to remove it in pieces without disassembling the rest of the dash! I currently have a home-made panel that closely fits the opening, covered in leather and looks it "so-so" but not great. I've been considering making a new crescent-shaped panel, that is a good tight fit, covering it in leather, and just slipping it into place. This way it is easily removable for what ever reason in the future. I would like to see what others have done. So please all you f-chatters out there who have tackled this problem...post away!
     
  3. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,993
    So. Shore MA.
    Full Name:
    Kenny K
    A simple and very effective solution to this problem is to simply get a good pair of polarized sunglasses. Polarized lenses will filter that right out. I'll plug Maui Jim as I've never have a glare issue with them.

    Wishing you good luck with the ambitious project!
     
  4. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    #4 uzz32soarer, Jul 1, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2008
    Looks a right bloody mess doesn't it Jeff?

    The cresent shaped top cover is really very well made but there were mistakes in the design. It's made of a strong corflute type material the same as the door trims. The thin leather is backed with a light foam to absorb imperfections in the corflute giving a lovely flat finish. The problem was that the leather skin or foam were never glued to the corflute. It's beautifully cut around the vent holes but instead of being folded through the vent holes and then being cut and stapled on the other side, Ferrari had their seamstress actually sew on another section that goes through the vent hole and is fixed on the back. This gave a weak point with a seam right on a shrinkage line. Silly buggers!

    To compound further in the rebuild process, there is a strip of untreated steel flywire mesh glued to the rear to stop crap falling into the vent, and then this really nicely formed steel surround with tabs that fold under and hold it all together.

    Then to really make life interesting, they left about 2 inches of leather hanging over the trailing edge and this has been glued to the steel upper dash crossmember with a contact adhesive. Now, in typical Ferrari style, nicely hidden UNDER the glued trailing edge, there are four aluminium tabs screwed through the steel to ensure that it just doesn't get away. Hence the only way to get it all out without further damage is to remove the main dashboard to expose the trailing edge, gently pry the leather away from the steel to expose the four tabs, unscrew them and lift the whole thing out.

    My problem has always been that the leather around the vent holes gets dry and with the screen in place there is no way to get any leather conditioner down there. I've had the Mrs spending ages trying to wipe in leather conditioner on the end of cotton tips and you still can't get around the back of the vents. It was so nice of Ferrari to realise this problem on the 512TR and 512M and increase the size of the black ceramic windscreen edge so that it covers up this mess and no one can see it any more. Out of sight - out of mind.

    At least with suede or alcantra you wont have to worry about conditioning it, just a quick blow over with the compressor gun once in a while to lift the dust from the pile and it should stay looking brand new for years.

    At least that's the plan, unless someone has a better idea.
     
  5. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Holy Smokes !!

    Wow.....super impressive job! So many of us have been asking how to remove the dash....and you've already done it....wish we had some pix.

    On the color...I'm surprised that the black was giving you such a bad reflection. I have that typical ugly brown and it doesn't reflect so much.

    Hmmm....maybe Ferrari chose that color for a reason...not that they got it in a bulk sale or something :D

    I think black is better looking but I still think you will have a reflection problem no matter which way you go. I have a black dash on my Lamborghini with no reflection whatsoever. In the Lambo, the dash sweeps away from the windshield. In the TR, the dash is straight out from the windshield. The straight dash with the angled windshield will always give you a reflection.

    If you go with the suede or alcantra, the rough surface will hold dust and eventually will show up a white patchy shadow. In Florida we have a allot of dust in our dry season. You can see it on the leather dash and it constantly has to be wiped off.

    I don't have any shrinkage on my dash but hate the brown that I want to pull the dash to change it. I too face the same dilemma of conditioning that area around the base of the windshield. The only thing I could come up with was a carbon fiber surface piece. I know, I know...carbon fiber in a TR doesn't go but what else can resist the sun, not fade or warp and not need any conditioning. I don't know if they make a "less" shiny carbon fiber.

    Do you have any removal tips for the dash?


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  6. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    Sorry I didn't take too many pics pulling it all apart, but there are reasonable instructions in the owners manual, however there are many steps it misses out on.

    I'll try and remember:

    TIP: Pull the seats out first to give yourself some room and save damage to anything. 4 x 6mm allen key cap screws. Too easy. Allow yourself about three hours inclusive of coffee (and/or Scotch) breaks.

    1. Remove the console side panels, leather and carpeted on both sides.
    2. Locate the 8mm bolts top and bottom of the centre console behind the odometer and fuel gauges. Unplug the guages then undo the 8mm nuts and slide the guage module out carefully.
    3. Remove the two screws under the centre leather cover below the air vents and remove the cover.
    4. Undo the two nuts and one bolt on that anodised bracket that you see behind this cover. Remove the bracket.
    5. At the lower end of the centre console you will find four 8mm bolts holding the upper console to the lower console. Remove them and then remove the centre console.
    6. Remove the leather gaiter around the steering column.
    7. Remove the steering wheel. You will need a puller to remove the boss from the shaft.
    8. Undo the 19mm nut on the steering height adjuster and remove the entire unit to allow the column to drop down.
    9. Undo the two screws in the steering cover and remove the upper shell section. The part that has the VIN plate on it.
    10. Undo the 10mm nut that holds the leather panel directly in the middle of the steering column and now exposed due to removal of the steering column cover shell.
    11. After removing the leather panel, now undo the two 10mm bolts that were behind it that hold the instrument binacle in place.
    12. Remove the side kick panels that hold the speakers. (Both)
    13. Unplug the dash and lift it out of the way.
    14. Remove the 10mm bolts and nuts now seen behind the dash cluster.
    15. Remove the leather trim behind the glovebox. Two screws underneath. This exposes another 10mm bolt. Remove this.
    16. Now looking upwards whilst laying on your back and basically where your tweeters are you will see one 10mm bolt per side holding the black alluminium box tube. Remove these.
    17. At this point (unless I've forgotten any) you can lift the dash away slightly but not completely.
    18. Remove wires from AC sensor on drivers side of dash.
    19. Remove tweeter wires on both sides.
    20. Unplug your stereo (if fitted) as you will now be able to see the rear of the stereo unit protruding through the back of the dash panel.

    Lift the dash out now and lay it somewhere carefully so as not to scratch the leather.

    Now you can see the glued down section of the front cresent shaped panel as described in my former post.
     
  7. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,402
    Alabama (was Mich.)
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    Jeff
    Robert....I can't thank you enough for posting on how to remove the dash! You have "de-mystified" this procedure for us and I know many will be helped by this information. Thank You Again!
     
  8. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
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    Robert Hayden
    You blokes help me out Jeff, just returning the favour.
     
  9. jjmcd

    jjmcd Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2004
    490
    #10 jjmcd, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
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    Robert Hayden
    #11 uzz32soarer, Jul 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And I have only this one pic but this is of the entire dash and I don't like it where it meets the different fabric of the doors:
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  11. Devilsolsi

    Devilsolsi F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2007
    8,505
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    Alex
    There is a clear coat that is applied to carbon fiber that makes it shiny. You could have a part made without the clear and it would have a pretty dull finish. Check out the pics of the Lambo Murce RGT that they have at the factory. THat is bare cf without the clear. There are pics of that car here..

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=203306
     
  12. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2003
    1,321
    Bradenton, Florida
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    Jim DeRespino
    Why not just recover the pieces in leather? I installed a clear film on the windshield (same as on police cars and taxis that sit in the sun all day) that cuts out 100% of the UV, 85% of the heat and less than 4% of light. The difference was amazing. The black leather dash remains cool to the touch even in the heat of the summer Florida sun. My A/C suddenly was freezing cold since it did not have to compete with the heat produced by the baking dash anymore. The stuff is made by 3-M, I just can't remember the name.

    I will be replacing my dash shortly (I got new pieces over the years) and I will have the old pieces recovered and offer them for sale if they look good. I think leather is the way to go.

    The last time I pulled the dash I remember there was an unending number of 10mm nuts holding everything together.

    Shamile, didn't you replace your A/C compressor a few years ago? Mine just went ka-put and I need a source for replacement.

    ...Jim
     
  13. JIMBO

    JIMBO Formula 3
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Jim DeRespino
    I think it was called Llumar.
     
  14. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Wow!!! What great pix !!!

    Ferrari is the only one that really captures the excitement in the way they present themselves and the cars. Lambo was too understated for the insane cars they design.


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,772
    #16 2dinos, Jul 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This job took us 3 days.

    1 to remove, and prep
    1 to install new glass and moldings
    1 to clean up, and reapply sealant (taping off surrounding area)

    Antenna lead was tough because it is so delicate.
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  16. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    #17 uzz32soarer, Jul 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The winter weather here hasn't helped. Not condusive to painting cars, especially with Glasurit. Anyway, the car is still in the panel shop and may be home this weekend. Meanwhile I was able to source a beautiful 1/2 skin of leather that is a 100% match to the existing dash material both in texture, grain and thickness.

    The trimmer has done a fantastc job and the flat dash section is ready to re-install when the car returns home.

    One issue however. The dash flat panel is made of a brittle fluted plastic sheet which has foam and then the leather stretched over it. Where the metal trims around the windscreen vent holes were positioned, the plastic had deteriorated badly and it wasn't possible to reuse the panel. A new panel was fabricated from MDF boaard of the exact thickness as the plastic original. It was cut to shape and all openings matched perfectly before being thoroughly painted to prevent the egress of any moisture in the coming years. It was then foam covered and the new leather was fitted and sewn around the vents exactly as per the original.

    Pics to follow but I'm 100% impressed with the result.

    I've also taken the oportunity whilst the dash is at the trimmers shop, to have him faricate a dash mat from dark grey Alcantara which is being custom sewn to ensure a great fit and allow me to keep it on the car even during track days where it will be subjected to high lateral forces at speed.

    Once I get the dash home, I'll do some images.

    Meanwhile I'm working on the speaker / amplifier / head unit instalation. A top line JVC single DIN in dash DVD player with 3.5" widescreen. The unit comes with reversing camera so I will be able to park much easier, simply grab reverse and lift the stereo flap to see what is behind.

    I have fabricated brackets to allow the mounting of the 4 x 150w Alpine amp behind the flat metal plate at the passengers foot rest. This way the entire install will be hidden away with the modified head unit being the only obvious modification.

    I have run new power lines from the battery to the fuse board and fitted a gold plated junction box in the fuse compartment. From this, two large power supplies have been taken into the car to power the head unit and the amp.

    In stock form there are actually two large wires going from the battery terminal to the fuse board plug. I have seperated these and connected them independantly to the battery using a better quality battery terminal. Then I have cut them close to the end and fed them into a power distribution block mounted to the side of the fuse board. This allowed me a split pair to enter the car. Pics below of this stage.
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  17. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
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    Robert Hayden
    #18 uzz32soarer, Jul 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  18. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    Well it's been nearly six weeks and there is still a big hole in the shed where my TR belongs. Weather hasn't helped and the panel shop has been really busy. Last week I cracked it with them and took to the roof with a rotary orbital myself. Stripped it back to metal. 4 hours of standing on my toes to reach properly!!

    Anyway, I saw it today and it's red again and baking in the oven tonight. The screen should be back in it by the weekend and then it can come home again. The dash refinishing is complete and I have the new section tucked away out of possible harm. Stuck it under the lounge setting on the carpet. I know it will be safe there coz the Mrs. never vacuums under there. Trust me!!

    First step when it's home will be to work on the heater. It only works intermittently for 20 seconds at a time before going cold, so I have to track this and see what is wrong. I've never actualy had a working heater so that will be a bonus.

    Then it's time to fit the amp and head unit and follow up with the reverse camera. All nicely hidded and for all intensive purposes 'stock' looking. Then put it all back together again. One seatbelt was frayed so I have had this re webbed, so there will be only small details to clean and fix on the way back together.

    Then it's time to open this box that's sitting on the shed floor containing the entire KE Jetronic system, fully refurbished and calibrated. Hopefully that solves my kangaroo opping symptoms as well.

    Then roll on Summer, Rob's back on the road!!
     

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