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Buying a 308 without a PPI

Discussion in '308/328' started by glenv6, Jul 31, 2011.

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  1. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #26 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    What went wrong with your '77?
     
  2. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #27 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    I am at the upper end of that range, so I'm feeling good about this (rust protected) QV Euro. I deliberately withheld stating my offer so I could get an accurate indication from the list to validate my thinking. I'll post my list... Also, as the owner of a Complex, High-Performance single engine Beechcraft Bonanza, I understand these acts you speak of!
     
  3. ckracing

    ckracing Formula Junior

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    #28 ckracing, Aug 1, 2011
    My suggestion as one other person suggested is take someone that works on his own cars
    to go over with you and inspect the car. Jack up the car, put it on jack stands and see how the underside looks. A coolant leak could be a drip, bad rad cap or something else.
    Pull the oil stick, look inside the overflow tank for oil sludge.

    Disconnect the coil wire/wires if is fuel injection pull the fuel pump fuses spend the engine and see if the oil pressure increases.

    You can also rent a coolant pressure tester that attaches to the coolant overflow tank.
    Pump up the system to 15psi. look for leaks. With the coolant system pumped up and it looses pressure and you do not find any visible coolant leaks, then I would suspect a head gasket.

    You can also rent a head gasket coolant leak detector, but the car has to be running.
    It uses a chemical that changes color, you remove the coolant tank cap then you attach the device to the coolant tank. Look for a color change.

    Good luck with your search.

    Charles
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #29 BigTex, Aug 1, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
    He's trying to warn you of the excessive costs to repair, but truthfully the heads on a 308 engine are ON THERE and "Blown Head gaskets" are a very uncommon event, even on cars that are thrashed to death! You'd have to continue running the car without coolant, and that's a little difficult where the alternator and water pump are on the same belt.....you lose 12V charging when the water pump siezes up and burns the belt off.....;)

    It's far more likely the coolant has leaked at the hot water heater tube head fitting, a 30 year old hose clamp, a chaffed aluminum water tube... or any number of other places far better known to "fail"....

    You won't find any "bargains" at his 10K to 15K number.......you pay market price based upon condition and THEN start investing in the car!!! LOL!
     
  5. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #30 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    Here's my thinking. What's too low and what's too high? Do my "too high" and "too low" estimates even out?...

    Offer Guide Low High
    308 Selling Price Range $26,000.00 $32,000.00
    Belts, bearings, misc parts 6000 6000
    Water Pump 1000 1000
    Hoses, gaskets, misc parts 1000 1000
    A/C Service 1000 1000
    Brake Service 1500 1500
    Interior, misc 1500 1500
    TRX Wheels 1600 1600
    Detailing 500 500
    Total Service $14,100.00 $14,100.00
    Net Offer $11,900.00 $17,900.00
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #31 BigTex, Aug 1, 2011
    Didn't you just come up short of cash to buy the Prugna car down in Florida????
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #32 BigTex, Aug 1, 2011
    I've bought THREE 1976 -77 308GTBs from honest gentlemen without a PPI and they are all solid wonderful cars!!!

    When someone hands you a pig in a poke, look them in the eye, not the poke.
     
  8. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #33 GrigioGuy, Aug 1, 2011
    FWIW, the 85 doesn't have to pass emissions in Texas anymore. I can't wait until January when my 87 is also free of the roller test.
     
  9. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #34 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    John - You made an offer on that car? Where were you going to have that PPI done? I talked to that guy yesterday. He also has an '84 QV Euro for sale. I really lke that Prugna color, but I want to stay in state (TX) if I can (Lazy)...
     
  10. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #35 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    Thanks for the contact!
     
  11. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #36 glenv6, Aug 1, 2011
    Ask the right questions, get the right answers and that cat won't stay in the bag for long...
     
  12. doug328

    doug328 Formula 3

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    #37 doug328, Aug 2, 2011
    Yes. I would slowly bring the engine back to life. When warmed up do a compression test and then decide. If the numbers are good, them go for it. If any of the numbers are bad, do a leak down test to find the problem; valves, head gasket, ect. then you will at least know for sure whats wrong and how much time and money it will take to fix. Good luck
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #38 BigTex, Aug 2, 2011
    There's a few key details that will get me interested in a deal.....

    Long time Ownership
    Mature truthfull owner
    Tools and records are with the car
    Round knurled airbox knobs are still there.....:D :D :D

    And the car is usually located half way across the country, requiring a balls out drive with only an map atlas and a duffle bag....

    I just got back from Chicago buying Amanda a Saturn Sky........her iPHone with Google maps made it somewhat easier to navigate, as I could not find my Atlas before leaving....but still the trip had wonderful moments, finding the Mothman Museum in Point Pleasant along the Ohio River, all the hotties out on a Friday night in downtown Nashville TN, hot seafood in Beaumont TX once we were "back home" in the state.

    She's upset it's a 5 speed it was supposed to be an automatic.
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #39 BigTex, Aug 2, 2011
    Once she got her iPhone plugged into AUX, and brought up her Pandora, the smile was back across her face, and she did fine handling the car on the highway.

    She'll get the hang of the stick shift, hopefully before crashing it.
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #40 BigTex, Aug 2, 2011
    I wasn't trying to bust your chops.....the right deal is the one that happens at the right time.

    I bought one of mine after cancer surgery, literally walking from the Hospital room out to the airport and climbing on the plane in bandages........
     
  16. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #41 glenv6, Aug 2, 2011
    All very good attributes to indicate a trustworthy seller... The chase can be exhilarating and loads of fun. Nothing like a good road trip to buy a car! I once (maybe 25 years ago) bought a ‘63 Dodge Dart Convertible I saw for sale while traveling outside of Rochester, MN. I lived in NY at the time and made the deal over the phone. Two weeks later I had a friend with a tractor trailer meet me out there and we drove it back. Rather, he drove the car back and I drove his tractor trailer! Of course he made me sleep in the car on the side of the road while he slept comfortably in his sleeper… The Mothman Museum sounds like ghoulish fun, it however looks like a New York Deli. I wonder if there is some connection :^O…
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #42 BigTex, Aug 3, 2011
    There was an old guy on the front sidewalk in a chair, that waved heartily as we cruised by, we went back to see the sculpture and view the waterfront, but didn't tarry in the museum.

    Weird tale, for sure!
     
  18. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #43 glenv6, Aug 8, 2011
    I met up with this seller at his garage with my tools, lights and a drop cloth last hot summer Friday night to check this car out. Before I had my tools, lights and cloths out of the truck, the owner said forget it and gave me his garage code to get a real PPI done this week. So with any luck, I'll own this '85 QV Euro by the weekend.

    I am already dreaming of a wheels off under carriage interior shampoo clay bar machine polish engine bay full monty Ottman detail job!
     
  19. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

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    #44 Tarik, Aug 9, 2011
    Good luck Glen!
     
  20. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #45 glenv6, Aug 12, 2011
    Thanks Tarik!

    Well, the initial results are in, but we have a long way to go. The guys at Norwood are going to run the car today before checking the compression and leak down a second time. With the engine having sat for so long, the initial compression and leak down were low and high respectively in two cylinders. Six checked out okay. James Patterson said to really know what's going on, he needs to heat cycle the engine a couple of times, then check compression and leak down again. It is probable that the rings will set and the engine will ultimately check out to be fine. If it doesn't, the two questionable cylinders are on the "easy" side of the engine, so a repair is not out of the question, and neither is a renegotiation of terms with this owner.

    James eye-balled the car overall and said it looked good, but that it has some needs, as I thought it would. If the engine checks out, I'll have him complete the PPI to know how much "needs" translates to in USD.
     
  21. Tarik

    Tarik Formula Junior

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    #46 Tarik, Aug 12, 2011
    Keep us posted! I rode the Speed Triple up for a conjugal visit with mine the other day, which is having a major done. My original plan had been to do the belts myself over the winter, but the realization that my schedule would turn this into a lengthy operation, combined with my desire to drive it a lot between now and winter, resulted in a trip to the shop. Anyway, since it a new car to me, I figured having a good baseline established right away wasn't a bad idea, after which I'll perform most maintenance myself.

    I hope your test results are good! Congratulations on selling the 'Vette!
     
  22. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #47 glenv6, Aug 15, 2011
    The guys at Norwood were finally able to run the engine today and the numbers improved nicely from the initial cold tests. The coolant leak turned out to be a split hose on the driver side of the engine – easy fix. Their plan is to drive the car tomorrow then do another compression and leak test and go from there…

    The Numbers:
    1) 180 / 6%
    2) 165 / 12%
    3) 175 / 8%
    4) 175 / 9%
    5) 190 / 4%
    6) 190 / 8%
    7) 180 / 18%
    8) 185 / 6%
     
  23. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #48 yelcab, Aug 15, 2011
    drive the piss out of it some more. I would not trust that 180 psi number at 18% leak down.
     
  24. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

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    #49 MBFerrari, Aug 15, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
    I did the same thing buying my Car from Gary Bobileff after he looked it over...not really an official PPI - If he says the car is ok, it is ok...

    MB
     
  25. glenv6

    glenv6 Formula 3

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    #50 glenv6, Aug 16, 2011
    Right, thanks! The compression and leak down values should stabilize after the engine has been heat cycled a few times under load. As it is with those values right now, there isn't anything tragic happening here and if all else with the car looks good I will take the plunge.
     
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