Superamerica - X-OST

I've heard nothing but great things so far from that company Congrats on the new exhaust


E

 

Sounds cool. Glad you are happy.

Don't forget about the Fuchs next time around. It's amazing.
I haven't heard the X-OST yet.

Tubi def is not the way to go on Maranellos.

Have fun!

 

A -

The folks at X-OST in Maranello are anxious to hear whatever clip you can capture. I spoke with them again this morning, and they're (obviously) delighted we're getting so much traction here in the U.S. From our 328, 348, 360, and now Superamerica installations so far, it looks like we really have a new competitive system in this market.

Best,
Daniel

 

A and Daniel,

I checked into the website for ricambiamerica but there was only a set for 550 and not one for 575. Is there supposed to be different set for each model? The reason I ask is that I was misled once and bought the Tubi for 550, and installed it onto my 575M HGTC. When I got the set there was 550 stamped onto the exhaust instead of 575. I checked with the part supplier in UK and they said 550 exhaust will work with 575. I checked again with Tubi and got the same answer. After installation the sound was just louder, not much of an improvement at all.

But when one of our local Ferrari Club members got his SA, he ordered a set of Tubi with 575 stamped on them, and sounds much better than what I had on mine. That was when I believe I was misled intentionally.

The sound you described is the kind I wanted. Please find a way to make a recording and post it. Thanks.

 

550=575=Superamerica -- the same cans fit all three cars.

 

Thanks for the info. But why did they sound different?

 

Not sure of all of the details on this Q, but the 550's do have resonators and diff X-Pipe setup, whereas the 575/SA have no resonators and straight pipes in the center.

 

Thanks guys for the info. There is anotherb post recently about the sound of the 355 being used for the 550/575 in Bad BoysII movie. The 355 kind of sound is exactly something I am hoping my 575M will make. I know it can't be the exact same sound, but the sweet high pitch tone like that. Is this at all possible?

I just talked to two owners of 575M and SA, and they said that the all three cars, my 575M HGTC, 575M, and SA, do sound different. Even though all three cars are fitted with Tubi exhaust. None has straight pipe on. I guess Tubi is probably not making too many of the 575 exhaust system, therefore there is no reference or standard even for themselves to go by. But none of the car has that high pitch tone of the 355 with Tubi I am craving for.

 

The closest you are going to get is with a decat, straight pipe, tubi muffler only exhaust system. It will truly wail, but may be a bit too noisy for some tastes.

 

Before I received the 575, I too wanted the Bad Boys II sound.

I'm very happy with the Fuchs SS/stock straight pipes on the 575 and how it sounds. Completely different and amazing.

It won't sound like the 355 dubbed in BBII, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Will a decat straight pipe cause any problem with all the sensors and computer setting from the factory? I am now thinking about trying out with a locally made straight pipe from a shop with Ferrari experience. They did a set for 355 and it was okay.

 

The problem with all these exhaust upgrades is they don’t fix the factory flaw. A 2.25 diameter exhaust tubing is far to small for an engine this big. 2.25" exhaust is better fitted on a small v8 like a F355. We were going to build everything in stages on our shop car. But after doing some research, math, and asking around to racers like Stephens 3" is the only way to go. We are finishing the system this week that start right at the manifolds and all the way to the mufflers. It will be offered as a complete package with or without high flow cats. Anyone interested please contact us at [email protected].

 

Yes it will, you will get a check engine light. We have a high flow cat kit for the 550, please contact us at [email protected] for details.

 

Can any one tell us what size diameter exhaust pipes are used on the new 599?
Since the 599 is good for 600 bhp then it should resolve the question about the need for 2.25 or 3" pipes.
Regards,
Ron

 

I don’t think anyone will be able to tell you the exhaust diameter of the 599, as many havnt had there hands on them. But im sure when we get our hands on them there will be plenty of room as well. With modern day emissions they must build very restrictive exhaust units since in free flow form they would be very dirty cars. This is why we have started to see precats in manifolds, etc.

Most companies out there just look at the factory unit, then modify it to be louder and look better. Our design process is very different. We remove the complete exhaust system and pretend we never even saw it. Then all the engine specs are calculated to figure out exhaust length, diameter, etc. After we have all the figures we then try to fit it to the vehicle. All systems are engineered from scratch to work perfectly with the vehicle. We don’t have to worry about cutting cost, emissions, etc like the factory does, so it gives us a lot of room. I can assure you that the 550 needs a full 3" system to gain max power. It would actually be in our favor to leave it at 2.25 so it could bolt to the factory mounted points and people can mix systems and buy only sections that they wanted. But then we wouldn’t be doing our job as a tuner.

 

Respectfully, I disagree. His question was about a 575, which is a different front end system than the 550. I believe the 575 uses a pre-cat O2 sensor actually plugged into the header, not the cat. The only wire on a 575 system is the rearward thermocouple. If my diagrams are correct, then I'd think ripping the cats out of a 575 (as long as you retain a provision for the thermocouple) would be an interesting configuration.

As always, I welcome any corrections if I'm in error.
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Ron
Theoretically it should actually be 3.25-3.5" as the ideal pipe OD for max power. Factory headers need to be modified to fix some simple design problems and port match, or better yet replace with well designed aftermarket set, decat or high flow race cats coupled with 3" straight system (not siamesed) will give HUGE power gains. Just changing the centre section on mine from Phil's siamese pipe netted close to 20Kw at the rear wheels. I ended throwing the whole factory exhaust system and Tubi mufflers in the bin and having the factory headers extensively modified.
Anyone want a set of cheap Tubi's?

 

Dear Stephens,

No doubt a complete redesign with 3" non-siamesed pipes is the way to go for the 550, and what did you use for rear mufflers?

By the way, do you think Phil would refund me the money I spent on the X-pipes (just joking)?

But before junking the whole exhaust system and spending another $10,000, back to my question on 2.25" pipes, what is the theoretical maximum power that can be delivered with straight pipes (assuming no restrictions with cats or rear mufflers or precat restrictor)? Based on this number we then can identify the bottlenecks in the rest of the current system. Do you see where I am going with this...
Ron

 

Dear 410SA,
You have mail !,
Ron

 

Straight through race mufflers are worth over 10kw at the wheels over Tubi's....
Running Motec, race fuel, modified and gas flowed intake system along with complete exhaust system - around 650hp.
BMC CDA's plus full system + dyno tuned ECU remap running pump gas,around 600hp.
Had heads looked at, good for 650+hp apparently, cams and compression are the other areas you can look at, but given the power curve of the car I don't know if I'd bother messing with the cams. As I posted elsewhere previously, in the orginal RaceTechnolgy article about the Le mans winning Prodrive 550, they used a completely stock bottom end. Only the pistons and gudgeon pins were changed to suit the enlarged steel liners, which took capacity to approx 5800cc.
A full system that would not be too loud for the street would be worth every penny of 10K, especially if it gave around 600hp.......

 

My suggestion if you're serious is to talk to Daniel at Harmony what exact plans he has for an all out performance, streetable system for the 550. Mine has been hand made by a racing team, testing different components on the dyno to maximise performance gains and as such isn't available as a "production" model.

 

I found this article on the web for Jaguar V12s saying that 2.75" was good enough for 800hp on a Ferrai race V-12 so by extrapolation 2.25" is good for 550-600hp?
Regards,
Ron

http://www.jagweb.com/aj6eng/technics.html
"A question that sometimes arises is the idea of having a balance pipe, or cross-over, between the two sides of the engine - the thinking being that if it works on a V8 it must do something for a V12.

It is true that a cross-over can benefit conventional V8 engines (with two plane crankshaft) but only because they have an uneven firing sequence along each cylinder bank, which creates the rather delightful V8 exhaust note. A consequence of having two cylinders firing consecutively on each bank is that the flow rate is briefly doubled, then later in the cycle the long gap between firing impulses causes it to be halved, compared to the average flow rate. The temporary high flow rate means the V8 can benefit from using larger pipe sizes than other engines and a cross-over pipe can help to even out the impulses. It is not obvious to the eye but the Jaguar V8 incorporates a cross-over within the main silencer box.

A V12, on the other hand, has equally spaced firing impulses along each bank creating an even sequence of pulses. There is no flow variation to require a balance pipe and the system does not have to contend with brief periods of peak flow so pipe sizes can be smaller.
---------------------------------------------------------
The only reason the V12 E Type had a balance pipe was simply to tune the exhaust note.

It is perhaps relevant to mention that a cursory glance at any F1 exhaust system will demonstrate conclusively that exhaust gases do not at all mind going round tight bends. The 6 into 1 system (photo) from an F1 Ferrari illustrates the point.
Also noteworthy is the modest diameter of the tailpipe - about 2.75" for an engine producing around 800 b.h.p. "

 

It is impossible for one to say “for this power level you need this diameter piping”. There are soo many variable that have an effect on diameter. The engine location alone will have a huge effect on the piping diameter. On the Ferrari F1 engine located in the rear of the vehicle they have to create a perfect amount of back pressure is a very short distance. This is why on such a high HP car they are using such small diameter tubing. Back pressure is created off the tubing walls. If you want more resistance you decrease tubing diameter, if you want less you increase it. In the case of the 550 we found 3" to be the perfect size according to our calculations.

 

WRONG WRONG WRONG
The size of the collector pipe on an F1 car has nothing to do with the size of the exhaust system. Where the F1 is 2.75" collector and 2" primary, The 550 is MUCH smaller than this. The F1 car has a tuned length header and NO exhaust system at all, as we refer to it.

I have posted this before, NO BACK PRESSURE AFTER THE TUNED PORTION OF THE SYSTEM (ie the tuned length headers) IS GOOD FOR POWER OR TORQUE. There many books available with the standard formulae used to work out primary and collector diameters and length.
Remember NO BACK PRESSURE IS GOOD. repeat and rinse. Dyno test have proven this without a shadow of a doubt. It is one of the greatest old wives tales in the tuning industry.

My car produced an additional 23Kw at the wheels increasing the pipe diameter. This was on top of all the other gains. The ideal pipe diameter for my car is actually 3.5" not 3" and may consider dealing with the packaging problems, if I decide to get a larger set of tuned length headers made that can better take advantage of the increased exhaust breathing.