Thermostat comparison

I don't know,but I just had one put in and was told that it was a ferrari part and cost $195,and there are some out there that are being sold to fit 308's @ a cost of $95,so is there a difference? will the last one that was in it lasted three years,it wasn't a ferrari oem,so its your call

 

If you are experiencing sub normal operating temps, like 165 degrees, fully warmed up, i suspect the thermostat is an old lazy, burned out unit, (there are a few threads documenting, Lazy, slow, tired old thermostats).

That was what i was experiencing, low temps, long warm ups. I replaced the old t-stat with one i bought from daniel, at Ricambi, and it was marvelous, quick warm ups, to 185- 190, (who can tell with vague-liar gauges), but it was what i thought was supposed to be normal.

Since the water came up to "normal temps" quickly, so did the oil, (always a good thing).

I will dig through my receipts and try to find what i really bought, but what ever it was, (and it was not $$$$), it really performs well.

Thank you Daniel,
chris

 

I recently replaced the thermostat when I did my overhaul. I ended up getting a factory one from Dennis McCann for $120.00. I have read where people have cross-referenced them to others from VW, ect. for much cheaper, but my thoughts are that with the high costs of engine repairs if the thing happens to overheat (can you say warped heads) It's worth the extra money to get the correct thermostat. I'm not above saving money where I can. Instead of getting the factory foam that goes around the radiator at over $100, I got some stuff at ACE hardware for $15.

 

I never heard of using a VW thermostat but I have heard of using the cooler VW fan switch - I first posted this back in 02.

There is NO reason NOT to buy the VW fan switch. None. That is, unless you just want to throw away extra money...

I have heard stories on both sides about the $$ Ferrari thermostat and another such as NAPA's, etc. Ted Rutland told me a couple weeks ago that it is one of the few parts that he will not sell an aftermarket option. He simply doesn't want to be responsible for a problem later with a knock-off. I hate to spend the REALLY extra money myself but I don't want to take a chance either. Besides, they don't need replacing very often so most of us most likely will never buy more than two in our lifetime anyway. It's probably worth it in the end.

 

Theres some interesting comments in this thread.

Superformance have a good name for themselves and they list one for £16.29 (about $40 inc Vat).

http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-mondial/cooling.htm

Before I order one from them. Are there any opinions on this cheaper version?
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I only install the original thermostats in my customers ferrari's. I haven't had a problem in 18 years. There is too great a risk using some cheap thermostat.

Rocco

 

+1

 

Anybody ever heard of "Fail Safe Thermostat"? Unlike standard thermostats, the Fail Safe T. is built with an extra stroke that automatically Locks into an open position when an

overheating condition occurs. http://www.motoradusa.com/products/failsafethermo/index.html

 

Guys and gals - I've gotta chime in here. First some background. 1) I have a friends '85 QV for several months while he's out of the country on business. 2) I see in the original post that the original thermostat has a plastic plunger (that's a key detail).

Over the 4th of July weekend, I drove the car up to NY (Watkins Glen/Syracuse) from Central VA. On the way home, the car overheated, and got left at Stonebridge Motors in Corning, NY. A new thermostat was delivered from Ferrari of Washington and installed at Stonebridge. What he found was that the thermostat in the car - also with a plastic plunger (which the replacement from FoW did *not* have) - had gone into "meltdown". It literally melted the plastic plunger until the thermostat was fused closed. Not sure if anyone else had ever experienced this or not, but I will be leery of any plastic plunger in the future. Oh, and the coolant was replaced at FoW the day before I left for the trip, and I experienced no issues on the drive up to NY. I can only imagine that whatever caused this had been happening for a while for it to finally get to that point. Yes? No? Maybe??

Fortunately, all is well - new thermostat is installed, coolant in and car being run up to temp with no other leaks. So it should be home soon.

Just wanted to provide this other data point for consideration.

Thanks!

George P.

 

Why are these thermostats so expensive? When my 30 year old Lotus one died, it was a bear to find a 54 MM 78C thermostat but I found one at Pep Boys for $7. I drilled the hole (which saves your head gasket from thermal shock on cold days) and it's worked fine ever since. I cannot see why an off the shelf unit for under $10 that's the right size and opens/closes at the right temperature would not be fine. Am I missing something?

Ken

 

From what I'm gathering (and this isn't based on much, so take it for what it's worth), the 308 has a very uniquely sized tstat. And that's the rub - finding the right size. "Or I could be completely wrong...."

gp

 

I used one from GT car parts & the car seems to be running cooler.

The old original began to open at 190 & was 'fully' opened at 210. I didn't check when it closed, though I still have it so I could check if somebody wanted.

 

I cant answer why any thermostat needs to cost $200, $120, much less $50. They have existed since the first liquid cooled engine was created over 130 years ago and are one of the simplest parts used anywhere in an engine. I dont particular care for Stant, they are pretty cheaply made, but any decent quality replacement that does the job should be totally fine. I'm sure whatever one is used in a 308 is used in something else, just need to cross it with something.

 

I wouldn't risk my engine to an aftermarket thermostat. With such a critical engine part , Original Ferrari is a must.
I didn't care for the price either but chances are you'll only have to change it once, so why not do it right ?

 

They do wear out in time and get stuck; hopefully open but usually closed. I don't know how easy they are to change on a Ferrari but it's a 10 minute job on my car because it's easy to reach and you don't even need to bleed the system afterwards due to the swirl pot design. They are very simple mechanisims and frankly I think it's a rip off to pay more than $10 for one. Someone mentioned 54 MM and that's the same as mine. Yes they are hard to find but not several hundred dollars worth hard to find! Pep Boys has them in many temperature ranges.

Ken

 

Can you elaborate on the function of the small hole. I thought it allowed minor water flow when the thermo was closed (cold) to equalize water levels. Would the heads be without water when cold?

 

*** + 1000 ! why risk a Ferrari engine on a cheap thermostat.

 

While I cannot speak specifically to the quality of the Ferrari OEM thermostat, from a pure automotive historical perspective, assuming that just because a part goes into a Ferrari makes it superior to an aftermarket brand is not necessarily a fail-safe move.

Plenty of parts throughout automotive history were built cheaply or with inadequate designs, and this includes expensive cars. Anyone who has ever been involved in biz-to-biz product sales and marketing understands that corporate loyalties (and existing contracts) often trump the better mousetrap.

My favorite OEM debacle case study is Jaguar/BL, which in the early 1970s contracted to have all the original-spec gaskets made by a company with close ties to BL executives. As most of you know, V12 E-Types and XJs leaked like newborn mommy breasts from new. Owners brought cars in to rectify the problem, and Jaguar dealers installed new OEM gaskets by the thousands. Unfortunately, the vendor supplying the gaskets turned out to be guilty of fraud -- they were charging for gaskets of cork, paper and other materials, but all gaskets were being made out of pressed sawdust. The profits were going into executive pockets. People went to jail.

Sure, that was Jaguar and BL...

...But let's face it: Marelli electic components? All of us know that the ignition systems in our V8 Ferraris are (at best) negligible. Many of you have already changed to other ignition systems. Ignition systems can cause just as much damage as sub-par thermostat...and do it quietly without you knowing. Are you really good at hearing a lean-condition pinging at high revs?

Or how about the water pump? Original was a piece of junk compared to units using modern manufacturing capabilities.

I often discuss with Bartmandial8 about Ferrari parts vs. aftermarket (as well as the same issue applying to hundreds of other makes and models). What it comes down to is fear, tradition and other issues. Ferrari people have fears regarding specific traits: thermostats and timing belts are two biggies. Why Ferrari people feel the need to change timing belts every 3 or 4 years and/or 15,000 miles, but the same people jump into a Honda, Subaru or any of the high-priced sports cars w/ timing belts and interference engines and think nothing of going 7-10 years and/or 70,000 miles can only be chalked up to fear and tradition. (And everyone realizes that Ferrari engines are expensive to replace, but if you knew that it could cost you 10K on your Honda, Kia or Subaru for the engine -- not including labor) would that sway the thinking, since a 308 engine can be found for not too much more? (the engine in the GT4 was replaced in the 1990s for $12,500ish parts and labor included at a Ferrari dealer.)

There are bad aftermarket parts and good ones. Similarly, there are bad and good OEM parts. If the aftermarket hits all the same specs and is built to a quality that you'd feel comfortable putting into your daily driver, it should be just fine to put into your Ferrari. Your Ferrari doesn't know it's a Ferrari...it just knows that it's ingesting fuel and air, adding spark...and cooling itself with water and coolant.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Oh, by the way -- it takes ten minutes to change the T-Stat. Just be VERY CAREFUL to get the thermostat perfectly seated, otherwise you'll crack the housing when buttoning it back up. Mine cracked the last time -- although I think the t-stat was seated, but the housing was already fatigued/cracked, so it broke in two. Replacement was $35ish at GT Car Parts (not bad!!!)

 

I just replaced mine (328) and the one I took out looke like the one (right) in the first post. The replacement came in a Ferrari box and Ferrari plastic. It looks like the one in post #6. When I tested them (hang in a pan of water on the stove and heat up), the origional one started to open at 150F and was fully open at 160F. The replacement started to open at 170F and was fully open at 190F.

 

Yes, that is the function of the air hole on a thermostat - bleed air. It has been a common practice for many years for folks to drill holes in tstats that don't have them. Some people drill one, some people drill two at 180 degrees and some drill three, equally spaced around the Tstat. It is easier to bleed a system with a "holy" Tstat since it can allow air through even before the Tstat opens.

Totally agree with SammyB. Ferrari doesn't make tstats. Neither does BMW, MB, or Huyndai. A Tstat in a Ferrari Box is not superior to one that says "Stant" or whatever. So as long as the replacement has the same specs, I'd buy the cheapest one I could find. I would NOT install the Stant that was shown in the first post due to the difference in the water passage size. In my mind, that stat is NOT the same spec, regardless of what the box or other data states re application.

Regarding opening/closing. Typically a standard Tstat labled as say, a 180 Tstat, will start opening at around 180 and be fully open by 195 this is within the normal specs for an Tstat. So don't be surprised if you check one and find it performing like that; that's what they do.

 

If two of these thermostats measured the same opening temp within 4F degrees, I'd be surprised. 4 degrees F is completely inconsequential as far as engine temps are concerned. The day to day variation in normal operation is higher than that...