Cam Seal Installation

Just install them as is. Make absolutely sure that the surface inside the cam seal housing is clean. Then press them in dry.

 

I believe it was Joseph theiler who taught me a trick a few years back on he seals. Take an electric engraver, just like you use on tools, and draw a couple of lines between the grooves. Adds plenty of "bite" so the seals stay put
HtH
Kermit

 

While dry should be fine, I apply a thin smear of Loctite 518 inside the housing before pressing the seal in. It provides a slight lubrication during pressing, then sets up firm when out of air contact.

Be careful to not get this or any other sealant on the seal's lip. Lube the cam up with motor oil or assembly lube before installing the seal so it slips in easy.

Best to slip the cam in thru the front of the seal to reduce the chance of dislodging the small spring inside the seal that keeps pressure on the lip.

This spring slipping out of place is one of the more common assembly mistakes that causes seal problems, sometimes not immediately, but down the road as the seal lip begins to wear a bit.

On the 4V engines, I install the seal & o-ring in the cylindrical housing, then slip it over the cam before install ing the cam & seal housing into the head. This minimizes the chance of the spring popping out during ass'y.

Have thought of using a couple of drops of loctite (crazy glue) to keep the spring in place during ass'y, but am hesitant because it would keep the glued portion of the spring from stretching.

BTW, Kermit's tip to keep the seal from sliping out is a good one. An alternative is to take a prick punch & put 6-8 dimples evenly spaced around the seal mounting perimeter, centered in the seal mounting area. Had a Jaguar racing mechanic teache it to me in the late '60s when he was coaching me thru rebuilding my XK150's engine.

 

while it is accepttable to use the above methods[my dad taught me as well] make sure to press/install the seal evenly.this is of course with a housing/shaft that is not worn.i am using the loctite myselfafter using silicone for years.i learn somthing new everyday.imiss my dad showing me the most.ymtc. forza

 

I'm in agreement with the others, except it is my preference to generally not press anything in dry. Even a thin wipe of oil or other compound will greatly facilitate damage-free installation and will probably not cause any leaks. I've heard of people using a thin smear of RTV, but Locktite would probably be good too.

My recommendation for prelubing the seal would be with pure motor oil, would be concerned that the molybdenum in the Assy lube may coat the seal surface and potentially cause problems. Have not experienced this or heard of this issue, but just a concern.

I like to tap seals in with a flat piece of steel over the seal so I can be sure the seal is going in smoothly and straight. On the 328 cam seals, I think I had to use the old seal as a spacer under the plate to install them. They tapped right-in.

Mark

 

Umm, I assumed that a seal driver was being used, gives better control than a flat piece of metal. Also great for installing & removing bearings. A set like the one referenced below usually has a disc close enought in size to seat almost any seal. For truly tiny ones seals, I usually can stack up several washers. I've had my set for 35 years or so. One of my better small investments. See:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92387

 

For the 308 early cars the seal (at least the GT4) wants to pop out for some reason, when you torque down the cam cover. I used a automatic center punch (on the advice of my b inlaw the drag racer) to make a series of dimples on both mating surfaces which held it inplace. I put them in dry after talking to many Ferrari mechanics, although some suggested an anerobic sealant. The later cars may be differrent. I had to do it twice to get it to stay put! I used the 3 bond stuff on the gaskets. One of my Ferrari mechanic buddies said they used to use sealant on the gaskets till they started getting the cars back and had to spend hours getting it all off. He said a few small drips were preferaable to all that hassle. I glued mine pretty tight no leaks and lots of fun next time around!!!

 

Verell:
If the part where the seal is going to be installed can be laid flat on a bench, then I prefere a flat plate to tap in a seal because if you look from the side, you can see right away if it is getting cocked and correct the tilting with a tap on the high spot. I have some of those Harbor Freight drivers, but I generally use them for bushings and bearings; I can feel the situation better with a 1/4" thick piece of flat ground.
Mark

 

After going through a timing belt and seal change only to have the front seal "pump out" (see below), I punch marked the valve cover as described by other above. (still wanted to came out, see below). As far as sealant I applied a little Yamabond, to the top of the seal, but would not do it again. What does make sense is to apply a little sealant just to the two places (junction) where the cam cover bolts to the head, and where the valve cover gasket meets the cam seal. Because of the gasket, this area will never present a perfect seal without a little help.

Below is the reason the seals can be pumped out if you are not carefull when timing the distributors.

Another issue. Just did major service including valve lash adjust, timing belts and cam seals. Every thing was fine untill I was resetting the static timing on the distributors. Next thing I know, the cam seal on the front exhaust bank had come out of its housing. Darn. Pulled the front (5-8) valve cover (again) changed gaskets, cleaned the seal, dimpled marked the seal cavity in the cover, and re-installed with new gasket. Mounted distributor where it was before. After a week, drove the car with some good hard pulls to 7500 rpm. Back at home everthing looks good and the cam seals are where they belong(fully seated).
Go to set the timing again with a timing light, front and rear at 5000 rpm (looking for about 36 degrees BTDC). After I finish I noticed that 3 of the four cam seals had moved (pumped out about 1/16 to 1/10 inch) Darn again. Got a big breaker bar and using the timing belt cover as a fulcrum point gently levered them back to the fully seated position (easy to do). Drove the car some more, including "on it". No more problems. Got to thinking about why. Here I think, is the answer. When reving the motor (to 5000 rpm for timing) with no load, there is very little load on the rings to seal them against the bores (especially with an older motor), and so there is a lot of ring blow-by.This pressurizes the engine block and the cam seals are pumped out of place. The crankcase vent hose system is probably not big enough. IN contrast, when the engine is at high RPM and the motor is under major load, the rings are pressured into contact with the cylinder, and no (less) ring blowby.
Lessons learned;
1) When setting distributor timing remove the oil filler cap, (so as to relieve pressure) and dont take too long.
2) When driving on the street, dont run at high RPM and light throttle.

The good news is that last weekend I took the car with wife for a 100 mile drive. Glad to report that the cam seals are still where they belong.

Martin Jansen
Agoura Hills.

 

I feel that either method (dry or sealant) for installing the seals is acceptable but if you do use a sealant, it must be a very very small amount.

Most leaks occur from overuse of sealant.


best regards, Jim

 

I stopped having seals pump/pop out when I stopped using any kind of RTV (Yamabond, ThreeBond, Permatex...) . Until it cures,for most press-in place seals, or for gaskets with loose ends like the cam cover gaskets, RTV is just too slippery, much more slippery than grease.

Cam cover gasket exception is I use a matchead sized dab of RTV at the head-cover joint at the bottom of the 4V o-ring groove. Haven't found anything else that does the job.

I concurr, less is generally better. A thin smear of anaerobic (515,518) sealant in the housing, thin enough to be transparent but with visable color works well for me on most seals. If there's a bead larger than a 0.5mm pencil lead when you're done, you've used too much sealant.

Mark,
I guess it's a matter of how good your calibrated eyeball is and/or whether or not the seal housing ensures proper alignment. Have never had a crooked seal problem using a seal/bearing driver. Mostly these days I use them with my arbor press, so alignment really isn't a problem, but did them by hand for years. Most seal housings have some kind of a machined ridge at the bottom that ensures they're properly aligned when the seal bottoms out in the housing.

Only recent seal alignment problem I can recall was when I installed a rear main seal on a 308 usisng a large flat board. Somehow one edge of it crept out after installation was checked & wasn't spotted until the engine was assembled & the 515 had set up. Ended up installing a new one as couldn't get it out in one piece.

 

308 2v cannot keep the cam seals in place-crankcase pressure releived-no sealant-some sealant, seals and gaskets came from GT car parts, any chanch that parts with the horsey on the box are more likely to stay in place.
Soon as the operating temperature is reached and the rpm is picked up the seals stary ooozing out.
Is there a mechanical device available that will hold they in place or is it simpley aftermarket parts. thanks for your help kdl

 

I had this problem and will pass on a suggestion that worked on the valve cover and head area that holds the seal use an automatic center punch about .5 inch apart near the middle of the flange will provide enough texture to hold the seals in I am pretty sure i went through the use/dont use sealant and ended up not using any sealant except around the area where the two halves seal near he gasket. I however never got the car together before I put the dimples in as I orqued the covers the top of the seals walked out.... very depressing new gaskets clean the surafces all over again. I feel for you...

Rob

 

I put some Permetex copper on my cam seals (because of something I read on a 308 thread somewhere, even though I knew better), and all they did was push out. In the end I ended up popping the cam covers off and fixing it properly.

The seals need no sealant, and if any is on them, or the engine, it should be completely removed. I ended up wiping off all traces of sealant and cleaning both surfaces with lacquer thinner before installing the seals dry. They never leaked or budged after that.

Absolutely, dimpling the sealing surface will help adhesion of the seal, but getting rid of any and all lubricants and installing the seals dry is still the best method for success. Installed dry, the seals should stay put indefinetly.

 

On my 348 cam covers, the new gaskets came with red silicone strips around the spark plug holes. Otherwise, there was none, so I did put a thin film of Permatex hi-temp RTV on those areas of the gasket. Also best to use RTV or sealant at small "gaps" where the gasket ends, such as on end of cam covers where cam cover gasket may come up short and leave a gap to the cam end caps. Just look for those potential leak areas and it only takes a dab! Like Verell, I also use Loctite 518... but usually only on the water pump, oil pan, etc. where no original gaskets are used. However, getting the pan off next time may not be easy .

 

You Guys seem to know what your talking about! Here's a question id like you to answer for me please... One of my cam seals has a leak on my Mondial 3.2, and it isn't due a belt change for another year and a half... Is there an easy fix to this without removing and cambelts/timming belts etc... The cars service is out of warranty by six months, and i bought it in England. (I live in N Ireland)