550 Barchetta's: future collectors car?

[PCH]

Originally Posted by toggie

Also, the future price and desirability of the 550 Barchetta is also likely to be affected by the design of a future possible 599 Spider.

If Ferrari does a really great job on a 599 Spider, then it might overshadow the 550 Barchetta over the years.

I hope the 599 comes out as a full convertible, similar to the tops on the 360 and 430 Spiders, rather than a hard-top convertible like the recent Ferrari California car. If the 599 comes out with the hard-top convertible, that will make the 550 Barchetta even more desirable in the long run IMO.

Here is a pic of the 360 Spider top which shows the lower roll bars and how they are mounted on one side of the rear-deck humps.

Difficult to draw any real comparisons with a car that doesn't exist. Regardless, IMO one has nothing to do with the other.

[bdelp]

For a car to be collectible, it has to be rare, unique in it's period, and desired.

I like the little boat-- but "collectible"? I''m not sure.

For rare, it's about a B+, for unique in it's period, it's a B- (its too closely related to the 550), and for desired.... well, I think that's were it goes down to a C.

That being said... I wouldn't mind having one at all! I think they are gorgeous.

[CornersWell]

I think many would argue with your grading scale, bdelp. But, you're entitled to your opinions.

CW

[montpellier]

Almost all Ferraris are collectible over time, even unloved 2 + 2 cars from the 60's are now gathering steam as the more desirable models of the period climb out of reach.

It all depends what people want, if they want to make a fortune, well it is too late for most cars, though the supercars will have some steam left yet, 288, F40 and F50 fo sure, more so as Enzo prices have gone silly.

But for mainstream of recent years, well you have to look for the rarer models, but you will need 20 years plus before you can say you have made money or they are worth what you paid for them. The 550 Barchetta will be sought after for sure, no matter what we think of it today, as will the SA and the CS. Going back a few years, the 512TR. I wanted a manual 575, as it will be one of the last of the manual v12 Ferraris. Not becuase it will be worth any great money, but because it will have a small place in the company history. It depends on your desire, I will keep my 575 forever, some will buy them now, keep a year or so and move on. I will also buy a CS to keep and a Dino too. Others want the 308 fibreglass, 328 without abs or a BB. No one will retire on these cars, but they will always have something about them, and be unique in years to come. But even the 8 cylinder volume models, I am sure in 30 years I will see a 355 and regret neverbuying one now !

Almost all classic dealers feel the 550/575 will have a big following for many years, and will become a mini Daytona. True volumes are higher, but also the cars were sold over a wider range, and density per country is actually quite low. All the dealers I speak to say get a good one now and wrap it up and keep it good. In 30 years, like the Daytona, people will want them, and you will have a nice, collectable and desirable car. Much as today. But you will not have a 250 GTO. Maybe the FXX will fill that gap.

Well that is my take

[Dr Who]

Originally Posted by montpellier

Almost all Ferraris are collectible over time, even unloved 2 + 2 cars from the 60's are now gathering steam as the more desirable models of the period climb out of reach.

I disagree. I don't have the time to explore this fully right now. But as Sheehan first expressed it in print, there are three eras of Ferraris:

1. The Enzo cars beginning sometime in the fog of the fifties up to the Daytona and C/4.

2. The Fiat years from the 308 cars to the 348 and 512M.

3. The Luca di Montezemolo years beginning with the 456 and the 355 and up to the current day.

All of the Enzo cars, 40 to 50 years later, are collector cars. There are any number of reasons for this, but perhaps the major one is these cars are representative of an era that no longer exists. Common people did not buy Ferraris during the 50s and 60s. There were instead brought by hip members of the "Jet Set." You know, that period of time where only the wealthy actually flew by jet. If you want to get a small taste of that time, watch "Mad Men."

From the Fiat years, IMO, only the 288 GTO, F40, F50, and maybe, maybe, the 512M have a shot at becoming collector cars. To keep things in perspective, Daytona's originally sold for less than $20,000 when new. Today's even the rattiest Daytona goes for over $200,000, which is a factor of 10. I forget, but let's assume that an F40 sold for $400,000 new. To match the Daytona, it will need to sell for more than $4,000,000 to achieve the same collector car status.

Finally, I don't see any cars from the Montezemolo years, including the Enzo, becoming collector cars in the next 30 to 40 years. They will be "desirable," which means that they may move back up in price to their original MSRP, but collectible? Sorry, no.

That said, I love the Montezemolo cars. I owned a Maranello for five years, had a Stradale for a while, and a 1967 GTC. While I loved driving the old banger, worrying about the cost of fixing what was sure to break took all the fun out of it, at least for me.

My advice, which along with $3 bucks will not even buy you a cuppa of joe, is to buy these cars and enjoy them. Buying them as an investment is a very, very bad idea.

Dale

[Ferrari 360 CS]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

is to buy these cars and enjoy them. Buying them as an investment is a very, very bad idea.

Dale

Great post, I particularly liked the above, at the end of the day these cars are about being enjoyed.

[montpellier]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

I disagree. I don't have the time to explore this fully right now. But as Sheehan first expressed it in print, there are three eras of Ferraris:

1. The Enzo cars beginning sometime in the fog of the fifties up to the Daytona and C/4.

2. The Fiat years from the 308 cars to the 348 and 512M.

3. The Luca di Montezemolo years beginning with the 456 and the 355 and up to the current day.

All of the Enzo cars, 40 to 50 years later, are collector cars. There are any number of reasons for this, but perhaps the major one is these cars are representative of an era that no longer exists. Common people did not buy Ferraris during the 50s and 60s. There were instead brought by hip members of the "Jet Set." You know, that period of time where only the wealthy actually flew by jet. If you want to get a small taste of that time, watch "Mad Men."

From the Fiat years, IMO, only the 288 GTO, F40, F50, and maybe, maybe, the 512M have a shot at becoming collector cars. To keep things in perspective, Daytona's originally sold for less than $20,000 when new. Today's even the rattiest Daytona goes for over $200,000, which is a factor of 10. I forget, but let's assume that an F40 sold for $400,000 new. To match the Daytona, it will need to sell for more than $4,000,000 to achieve the same collector car status.

Finally, I don't see any cars from the Montezemolo years, including the Enzo, becoming collector cars in the next 30 to 40 years. They will be "desirable," which means that they may move back up in price to their original MSRP, but collectible? Sorry, no.

That said, I love the Montezemolo cars. I owned a Maranello for five years, had a Stradale for a while, and a 1967 GTC. While I loved driving the old banger, worrying about the cost of fixing what was sure to break took all the fun out of it, at least for me.

My advice, which along with $3 bucks will not even buy you a cuppa of joe, is to buy these cars and enjoy them. Buying them as an investment is a very, very bad idea.

Dale

Sorry I deem collectable as not as a money making, but as cars that will be desirable and sought after no matter the value, you are focused on money only, which is a totally different thing. I think I alluded to the big money cars, and of recent years there will be nothing like the 50s and 60s simply due to volume of cars made. The FXX possibly, 288, F40 and F50 sure, but that is about the lot. Collectable to me is about having something you desire and enjoy, which is what \i was talking about, you disagreed then continued to actually agree with what i was saying. There have been very few unloved Ferraris, or cars without a great following, the 308 Dino being one for example. I stick with my view, almost all Ferraris are collectable, though if you are in it for asset value increase, the best years of that are well past unless you are in the Ferrari supercar territory. Others will just remain desirable and sought after, but in a relative (value) manner. Equivalent buying power over time will also see to that.

[Dr Who]

Originally Posted by montpellier

Sorry I deem collectable as not as a money making, but as cars that will be desirable and sought after no matter the value, you are focused on money only, which is a totally different thing. I think I alluded to the big money cars, and of recent years there will be nothing like the 50s and 60s simply due to volume of cars made. The FXX possibly, 288, F40 and F50 sure, but that is about the lot. Collectable to me is about having something you desire and enjoy, which is what \i was talking about, you disagreed then continued to actually agree with what i was saying. There have been very few unloved Ferraris, or cars without a great following, the 308 Dino being one for example. I stick with my view, almost all Ferraris are collectable, though if you are in it for asset value increase, the best years of that are well past unless you are in the Ferrari supercar territory. Others will just remain desirable and sought after, but in a relative (value) manner. Equivalent buying power over time will also see to that.

The original poster asked a question, and I gave my answer, which some took offense to.

To me, when someone says a collector car, I'm thinking of a valuable car. The same logic holds for art work.

Again, I love most modern Ferraris. But I'm not delusional. Any Maranello or Maranello derivative is a cool car. But none of them are going up in price any time soon. Indeed, any significant appreciation in price is decades away. So why not drive the damn things? Just remember, it was a wise man who said that in the long run we are all dead.

Dale

[ralfabco]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

But none of them are going up in price any time soon.

Dale

I agree.

In addition, too many of these cars are cared for. No car will ever have weeds growing in the interior. My "guess" is the "regular" 550 pulls down the B, to some degree. Almost all modern exotic production cars, are taking a beating on resale value.

The Murcielago Roadster also has the same issues, on account of the complicated and limited soft top. The M.R., was offered for sale from year 2005 to present. A nice 2005/2006 car with low miles and no stories, can be found for asking prices around 200K.

The 550B, is a nice looking car. I don't see too many modern production exotics appreciating in price any time soon.

[DM18]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

To me, when someone says a collector car, I'm thinking of a valuable car. The same logic holds for art work.

Again, I love most modern Ferraris. But I'm not delusional. Any Maranello or Maranello derivative is a cool car. But none of them are going up in price any time soon. Indeed, any significant appreciation in price is decades away.

+1

[big.bryant]

I can see them always being one of those niche cars... Basically for those who enjoy them and like the idea of a "sunny day cruiser" and are willing and able to have that in their fleet of vehicles. The big question is: will that small group of people grow to be larger than the supply (450 or so) which would cause the price to drive up...

Regardless, i think it would be sweet to have one for really nice days here and there (esp. here in CO) and would never try to buy one (or any car) hoping that it will appreciate in value, buy it and enjoy it, if it appreciates, awesome and good for you, if not, oh well its still a great front engined V12 with only a proper manual that can be enjoyed.

Cheers.

[jeff3825]

What is a good price for a 550B in today's economy? There are two that I have found with around 4K miles for $199K. Is there still room to go down?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-...item35a43c1406

http://www.mgmsl.com/nlisting.cfm?ID...2D7d832e79bb39

[ElastomerGuy]

Jeff3825
Was at Marshall Goldman last Saturday. The 550B looks to be in beautiful shape. It appears to be pristine and perfect, actually. The sales person to whom I spoke was a gentleman named John Ashe. He's a Ferrari owner and seemed to be very knowledgeable.

[keberhardt]

Keep in mind, pot-belly rednecks pay more today for the thousands of Hemi Mopars made than for the current value of a nice 550 Maranello! Collectibility is impossible to estimate! But Ferraris from the '60's are collectable for the SAME reason Hemi Mopars and late '60's GTO's have become 6-figure cars---they represent a bygone era of reminiscence for a certain age group of guys that have various levels of disposable income. Every guy wants the car of his dreams when he was in his mid to late teens, and for some it will be 5.0-liter Mustangs twenty years from now, and for a smaller group it will be a 328 Ferrari---you just never know! The good thing is that if you buy ANY Ferrari at the bottom of it's depreciation curve, you will have the sweetest ride in town and it will ALWAYS hold its value and maybe make you a bit of money. But never again will you be able to buy a new 427 Cobra for $6000, and 40 years later sell it for $2,000,000! Those days are over in today's world of speculators. Remember when everyone horded '76 Eldorado convertibles and '78 Corvette "Anniversary" editions? Can't make money when everyone else is in the same game!

[big.bryant]

This caught my attention... seems to be a bit late but maybe not(?)

opinions?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/29/z...550-gtz-barch/

[J Ingram]

Originally Posted by big.bryant

This caught my attention... seems to be a bit late but maybe not(?)

opinions?

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/29/z...550-gtz-barch/

It looks like a 60's Vette!

[tazandjan]

Bad info on that site. Near as we can tell, there were at least five 575 GTZs built.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[big.bryant]

Really? Everywhere I have looked I have only seen it as being a one-off.

[Bullfighter]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

Sorry, but the answer is no.

Number one, it still looks like a Maranello (not that there is anything wrong with that), and Ferrari made jillions of Maranellos.

Number two, the "top" is a joke. The only place to drive this car is in sunny southern California where it never rains in the summertime.

Dale

I agree with your reason number one, and your conclusion.

As to reason number two, probably irrelevant: The original Porsche Speedster isn't exactly weatherproof, and values are solid. Practicality is overrated for collector cars, which never get wet in any event.

As a reason number three, most modern Ferraris sit around in garages (as the OP noticed), so the supply of perfect cars will probably be ample for our lifetimes. 448 is plenty for a "made to be a rarity" modern Ferrari.

[aaron1199]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Near as we can tell, there were at least five 575 GTZs built.

You are thinking of the 575 GTZ, the Zagato-bodied 575M. This is the 550 GTZ, the one and only Zagato-bodied 550 Barchetta.