Toyota decision made...... - Page 2

**Simon^2** · #21 11-03-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

I am.

I always thought it was a 50/50 call and the spirited drive from Kobayashi was promising. The car was never better than this year and the economy is getting over the recession, so yes, why not carry on?

Why was Toyota in F1? Made no sense from a Brand POV. The only logical answer was to avoid being shown up by Honda. Once Honda left, toyota had no reason to be there...

I'm not the least bit suprised they left.

**VIZSLA** · #22 11-03-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

The upside is name recognition and using F1 as a platform and as your credentials for advertising.

Plus it is cool to say "We're world champions! Again. And again. And will be next year and the year thereafter..."

Exposure is of course the biggest pay-off. But it can be a two edged sword.
I find it hard to believe that a tire maker without a competition track record would be allowed to just step into F1.

BMW.SauberF1Team · #23 11-03-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon^2

Why was Toyota in F1? Made no sense from a Brand POV. The only logical answer was to avoid being shown up by Honda. Once Honda left, toyota had no reason to be there...

I'm not the least bit suprised they left.

Agreed. Toyota doesn't even make sports cars so it made no sense. The Supra ended production back in Japan in 2002 and there wasn't even a replacement for it (which is planned many years in advance). At least Honda had S2000 during its time in F1.

**vinuneuro** · #24 11-03-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

What have the cossies got to do with anyhing?

I take that bet. Sauber will get Toyota's slot and will not use a cossie. I'm still looking for a beer provider in 2011...

See the article on the typical smoke surrounding the new entrants and N1 Technology's suit against the FIA regarding their alleged (and likely) requirement of the new teams to use Cossie's.

**tifosi12** · #25 11-03-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

See the article on the typical smoke surrounding the new entrants and N1 Technology's suit against the FIA regarding their alleged (and likely) requirement of the new teams to use Cossie's.

Yes, but Sauber inherits Toyota's slot, which is not related to a new team.

Unless you want to look at them entirely as a new team, which is kinda ridiculous. Then again it is the FIA we're dealing with...

I thought the point of the cossies was to give the poor teams a cheap engine solution. Sauber doesn't need that and with Williams on board, Cosworth has now probably enough customers anyway.

ACross32 · #26 11-03-2009, 06:19 PM

Now that Max is out of the equation, the Cosworth requirement is likely no longer in place.

**SRT Mike** · #27 11-03-2009, 06:23 PM

Let's bear in mind that it's not official that Toyota is gone...

I would be slightly surprised if they do bail.

**vinuneuro** · #28 11-03-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Yes, but Sauber inherits Toyota's slot, which is not related to a new team.

Unless you want to look at them entirely as a new team, which is kinda ridiculous. Then again it is the FIA we're dealing with...

I thought the point of the cossies was to give the poor teams a cheap engine solution. Sauber doesn't need that and with Williams on board, Cosworth has now probably enough customers anyway.

Brawn didn't get Honda's cut from 2008. I'm pretty sure Sauber will be considered a new team.

What will be curious is how Toyota's breach of contract will be handled.

How cheap is cheap? The impression we have so far is that the new teams were coerced into using Cosworth. I imagine Max won't bother since he's pretty much done and/or simply won't have the guts to pull something like that on such an established team.

**Korr** · #29 11-03-2009, 07:09 PM

Only surprise is that it took them so long to pull the plug.

**tifosi12** · #30 11-03-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW.SauberF1Team

Agreed. Toyota doesn't even make sports cars so it made no sense. The Supra ended production back in Japan in 2002 and there wasn't even a replacement for it (which is planned many years in advance). At least Honda had S2000 during its time in F1.

You need a new moniker. Something like Ferrari.SauberF1Team.

As it should be.

**Rosso328** · #31 11-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon^2

Why was Toyota in F1? Made no sense from a Brand POV. The only logical answer was to avoid being shown up by Honda. Once Honda left, toyota had no reason to be there...

I'm not the least bit suprised they left.

I hadn't really thought it through, but now that you say it, that makes perfect sense.

That said, I really do hope Kobayashi gets a ride for next year. He really impressed me in his two starts. Fast and scrappy from the get-go. We need more of that in F1 these days.

**SRT Mike** · #32 11-03-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Yes, but Sauber inherits Toyota's slot, which is not related to a new team.

Unless you want to look at them entirely as a new team, which is kinda ridiculous. Then again it is the FIA we're dealing with...

I thought the point of the cossies was to give the poor teams a cheap engine solution. Sauber doesn't need that and with Williams on board, Cosworth has now probably enough customers anyway.

Andreas,

I read an article on Autosport (sadly it looks like it will happen)...

BUT...

I don't think this means Sauber now gets a pass into the 2010 season. After all, the only reason Sauber is in a bind is because BMW refused to sign the docs for 2010, and so lost their spot. Toyota can announce their withdrawal, but "Toyota F1" still has a lot, that is no more or less valuable than USF1's slot.

There is talk about a management buyout just like at Brawn... and in this case, Toyotas slot would not be available to Sauber.

And if Toyota is actually bailing out next year, their slot and entire operation would be verrrry valuable to some folks... perhaps Qadbak (if they are not fully committed to Sauber/BMW) or perhaps a certain ProDrive, or even Lola (who were jilted last time around).

Honda let it go very cheap, and I am sure there would be a lot of interested parties at HondaF1 prices.

I am not sure this helps Sauber very much at all, and at best it just gives them another seller to negotiate with.

BMW.SauberF1Team · #33 11-03-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

You need a new moniker. Something like Ferrari.SauberF1Team.

As it should be.

Yeah...I should, but we'll see what the official team name will be and even then I have to PM Rob and ask to change it.

**Derek K** · #34 11-03-2009, 09:33 PM

TOKYO, Nov 4 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor <7203.T> will announce on Wednesday a plan to pull out of Formula One racing after this year, Japan's Mainichi newspaper reported on Wednesday.
The reported withdrawal comes as the auto industry starts to stabilise after a sales crunch in the wake of the financial crisis.
If confirmed, Toyota's pullout would be another major blow for Formula One after Japan's number two carmaker Honda quit the series last December to cut costs.
It would also continue the drain of Japanese companies from motor sport, which has seen Subaru and Suzuki withdraw from the world rallying championship and bike maker Kawasaki scrap its MotoGP team in the grip of a severe market downturn.
Japanese tyremaker Bridgestone announced earlier this week they would not renew their tyre supply contract with Formula One after the 2010 season.
Toyota's Fuji International Speedway circuit in July gave up the hosting rights for the Japanese Grand Prix in 2010 and beyond to reduce costs amid the global economic downturn.
The pull-out of Japanese companies from F1 began with Honda-backed Super Aguri, who left for financial reasons early last year.
Toyota are the only remaining Japanese team in F1, but have no drivers signed for next season and were dropped as Williams' engine partner for 2010.
HUGE BUDGET
The world's biggest carmaker have failed to win a race since entering Formula One in 2002 despite an estimated annual budget of around $300 million.
Their departure from the sport would leave just three manufacturers -- Ferrari (FIAT), Mercedes and Renault. It would also open the door for BMW-Sauber's new Swiss owners to take their place as the 13th team on the grid.
Toyota signed the concorde agreement earlier this year committing themselves to F1 until at least 2012, so a pullout could also have legal ramifications.
The Yomiuri newspaper said Toyota has raised its global production plan for the year to March 2010 by 13 percent to about 7 million vehicles from 6.2 million units forecast in February.
Toyota has forecast an operating loss of 750 billion yen ($8.3 billion) on revenues of 16 trillion yen. It is scheduled to report second-quarter results on Thursday. ($1=90.36 Yen)

Earthboundmisfit · #35 11-03-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRT Mike

Max hated John Howett from Toyota...

So...

Howett: Gone
Flavio: Gone
Ron Dennis: Gone*
Luca: Still there

3 out of 4 ain't bad... of course he eviscerated F1 in the process, but that doesn't likely matter

*Ron Dennis is already back. I am pretty confident Flavio will be back some day. Luca ain't going anywhere, and John Howett will likely land on his feet in F1 in the future or somewhere else.

So in the end, Max won nothing and his legacy is in tatters, just like his dignity after hooker-gate.

Back how? Visiting in Abu Dhabi? As Martin Brundle pointed out, he was sans team shirt. He isn't back.

**LightGuy** · #36 11-03-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraftwerk

Also I have read news that Bridgestone is to quit Formula 1..

Relax; Ling Long's got f1 covered.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32899266/ns/business-autos/

**tifosi12** · #37 11-03-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRT Mike

Andreas,

I read an article on Autosport (sadly it looks like it will happen)...

BUT...

I don't think this means Sauber now gets a pass into the 2010 season. After all, the only reason Sauber is in a bind is because BMW refused to sign the docs for 2010, and so lost their spot. Toyota can announce their withdrawal, but "Toyota F1" still has a lot, that is no more or less valuable than USF1's slot.

There is talk about a management buyout just like at Brawn... and in this case, Toyotas slot would not be available to Sauber.

And if Toyota is actually bailing out next year, their slot and entire operation would be verrrry valuable to some folks... perhaps Qadbak (if they are not fully committed to Sauber/BMW) or perhaps a certain ProDrive, or even Lola (who were jilted last time around).

Honda let it go very cheap, and I am sure there would be a lot of interested parties at HondaF1 prices.

I am not sure this helps Sauber very much at all, and at best it just gives them another seller to negotiate with.

I hear what you're saying but don't forget that in F1 aside from the rules by the FIA there is also the entertainment/money factor run by Bernie.

They just couldn't physically add another team to the existing pit garages, so they used the FIA regulations to keep Sauber out. With one team less, I'm sure the "powers that be" will bend over backwards to bring Sauber in now.

After all is said and done, a Sauber team on the 2010 is a LOT more interesting than any of the newbie teams and Bernie knows that.

**Isobel** · #38 11-03-2009, 10:03 PM

I just knew Kimi should have jumped at their offer. The signing bonus would have helped at Christmas.

Remy Zero · #39 11-03-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

I am.

I always thought it was a 50/50 call and the spirited drive from Kobayashi was promising. The car was never better than this year and the economy is getting over the recession, so yes, why not carry on?

i agree. This was probably their most consistent season, and they had a 1-2 chances of winning races.

**Senna1994** · #40 11-04-2009, 12:07 AM

Andreas,

When are you changing your Avatar to Fernando's Helmet.

Best,
Tony