Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron

Yes they are aerodynamic devices that trim out wake turbulence caused by the wing which is a regulated size and configuration.

I do think it's important to remember that sports cars are designed to go around turns and that the numbers they can generate in downforce and lateral grip are important and IMO more important than 0-60 or 1/4 mile times or even VMAX. P 4/5 Competizione's VMAX is "only" about 160 mph and it has "only" 430HP. (HP is restricted by air restriction) It also has minimum weight of 2750 lbs. (It carries ballast to reach that) but because of the numbers I spoke of it can go around turns and a race course reasonably quickly even one with a long straight.

Note the forces in this photo.

Note that it goes through many turns in this video without lifting the throttle. I wouldn't suggest trying this in an Enzo.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwN-h7ykYR0[/ame]
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And what exactly does this have to do with a Ferrari F40? ^

 

Completely stupid comparison sad to say, why? I'll let you work that one out.

 

that's because YOU are missing the point, about equalizing comaprison of cars not side-by-side, made by someone with obviously better insight then yourself ...minding you manners here would be something to try also!

 

Good points! On the other hand though, an Enzo is massively more powerful and almost 10 years older...

 

That's the point. Even with much more HP, unless that HP is allowed to work, (Traction enabled by Downforce) it's useless. Around a Race Course P 4/5 C would leave all of these cars FAR behind. (even in fully street legal configuration) At the Ring an Enzo couldn't even finish one lap being pushed without over stressing it's shock absorbers.

P 4/5 Competizione has so much downforce that it doesn't need Traction Control in Dry conditions. The Ferrari F430 GT 2 does. On the street downforce is very important especially low speed downforce as it makes cars safer to drive around turns. All of the cars compared in this thread are designed to produce downforce. The F40, especially an LM version or a street version fitted with wing/canard/fences, and there are several that are, produces a lot of downforce which makes it a lot faster around turns and improves air flow through the engine compartment which lowers under hood temperatures and engine inlet temperature which produces more HP. The movable wing on the CGT and Veyron are downforce devices that crank out to allow higher VMAX. My point remains numbers that also matter and IMO are a lot more interesting when comparing sports cars are as opposed to 8 second 200 mph 1/4 mile Evo's are downforce and lateral grip. P 4/5 Competizione is fitted with sensors that measure and report these numbers in real time and enable us to race the car efficiently. A skid pad can measure lateral grip and many magazines report them when testing Sports Cars. I have measured the Downforce of an Enzo in a wind tunnel, as an aside it's no where near as high as reported in Road and Track, and it's an interesting one to compare with P 4/5 Competizione's.

This is Ferrari Chat. This isn't EVO Drag Chat. Ferrari's are Sports Cars. Even 20 year old Ferrari F 40's were built to produce lateral grip and downforce and comparing it's numbers to an Enzo's might be instructive.

Bill has an Enzo and a CGT. How about testing them on a skid pad and measuring lateral grip. Many here have F 40's and could do the same test.

 

The current issue of Top Gear has an interesting article on the new Pagani Huayra that explains it's computer controlled active aero systems which are quite amazing and not only help downforce and VMAX but also help anti roll/anti dive and braking. It will be interesting to see if the the new "Enzo" uses this technology. The Enzo/Veyron and CGT have active aero but nothing like this. Even though it's 20 years old the F40's aero especially as developed on the F40 LM is still very impressive. Does anyone know F 40/ 288 GTO/ Lateral G numbers? (Skid Pad)

 

C&D tested the F40 at 1.01g

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/08q4/rocket_sleds_the_best_performers_from_50_years_of_car_and_driver_testing-feature/orbitals_page_2

 

Very impressive considering that the new Pagani Huayra's Pirelli tires are rated at 1.5 G's.

The F 40 was built 20 years ago.

 

Just awesome! Thanks.

 

interesting to see the F355 right up there with the F40 at 1.02g

 

Case and point.

 

After some inspiration from a Ferrari F40 owner (ex owner) Peter Pless in Australia I finally got around to absolutely smashing the Ferrari F40 100kmh to 200kmh figures, easily dominated the USA example bill posted up and all of the European data I could find as well.

Results posted here > http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=14704

My RX7SP is in full street set up, normal pump petrol (water injected) and more of a handling car than a straight line car, but still.

Bill, I'd like to see 100kmh to 200kmh from the CGT and the Enzo if you can please post it up as you did annotated for the F40 you tested.

Thanks.

p.s. The rx7 is no one hit wonder, been running at this level for over 20,000km, and have had it to 211mph

 

Thanks very much Bill, that is a ROCKET!

Would you be able to send me a clearer picture of that test please? [email protected]
Also what was the weight when you ran it.

I read all about your precision engine rebuild on the Enzo, it makes me happy to see an owner of such cars getting down and doing the hard work like that what you undertook.

Best Regards.

Peter

 

How much do you estimate the power is now? or closer to factory rating v's before when the motor was a bit tired.

 

Few days ago, this is what I found on a Australian or UK (dont remember) car website talking about Ferraris, it seems a gps test and sounds so fast. The car was also dyno'ed 420 whp....
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The best 100 to 200 km/h times of OEM cars from magazine tests I've seen:
10.2 s GTO
6.4 s F40
7.5 s F50
5.9 s Enzo

 

The car was a bone stock early car... thanks for the scan.

 

I think the reason was the bonus of power. Octane Magazine said about:

Ferrari quoted 478 bhp for catalyst-equipped F40 and we all know that Italian horses are usually bigger than others. But with the early cars not fitted with catalytic converters, which were quoted 486 bhp, the power is actually nearer to 500 bhp. That's a nice bonus and it's why pre-cat cars are the most desiderable.
American spec are not as desiderable: less power, more weight because of the extra crash protection, catalysts, adjustable suspension, additions to the bodywork, strange seatbelts and so on.

 

Max,

Thanks for the test you posted, it's very helpful. I agree with how Octane magazine published about power and weight.