308 front header removal

Does anyone have the latest theory on removing the front header on an early 308? Will it come out without removing the fuel tank? I ran a search and found some info, and I am sure once I get my arms in there I will figure it out, but doing the least amount of work would suit me fine for now. Will it come out the bottom or out the side, or will it come out the drivers side???

This is a 77 non cat car, although it did have the wrapped headers. Over half of the wrapping is gone, either torn off or broke off. Its quite a bastard looking thing, pretty ugly. I read that the alt., does not need removing, but I will pull it anyway if for no other reason than to clean it. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

I have the alt., and starter motor out. Pulled all the wiring out of the way, disconnected the shift linkage. Looks like if I can get the shift rod off at the shifter box and slide it forward I may be able to sneak it out the bottom. I may have to remove the dip stick tube as well, but first the shift rod.

I spent another half hour spraying down the front of the motor with solvent, everything is just sooooo covered with greasy oily grime. Car needs some Rust-eze.

 

I already have the rod disconnected. Too late. I pulled the dip stick tube. The rod though, only moves forward a little ways, not enough to slip the header past. Next would be to remove the shifter assembly which would seem to require removing the console. &%#*@^%!^. Okay, that is the first I have swore at my Ferrari. Okay, it wasnt. The first time was a few hours ago, when I noticed some total retard hackdude had peeled open the rocker panel along the bottom weld line to replace the AC hoses. I noticed it when I skinned my skull on the sharp metal edge getting out from under the car. They hid it well with some pop rivets.

I probably need to remove the console anyway, so as I can slip the parking brake cable back in. For some reason, hackdude didnt tighten it very well, as when I hardly pulled on the rear bracket to work on the rear header, it simply slipped out. All mangley on the inner end, I doubt it was originally put together like that.

Between people who refuse to maintain thier car, and hackdude mechanics that can screw up more than they fix, its a wonder this stuff even runs sometimes. Why bother putting on brand new carburetors when the car has massive exhaust leaks and cracked headers. Why install and adjust new carbs, and connect the same crappy old hose back onto them. Why install MSD ignition boxes, and run the hot lead off the battery lead starter terminal, unfused, up and over the fuel tank and hoses, and through a ungrommeted hole into the trunk. Hackdude even ran an unfused #6 wire right off the battery, through the cockpit, under the door trim, back to the trunk through more ungrommeted holes, so as to run some big amps. Think Hackdude wanted it to burn. He sure tried. This is old stuff too, been that way a long time.

Birdman, this car has your fuseblocks in it already, and it came with another unused set as well. Guess the previous owner bought an extra thinking he needed two? Very very good workmanship on them I must say. Guess as long as I have another 308 I may as well put them in it?

 

Funny you mention this. Somewhere this afternoon I realised this as well. If I wernt working alone, and if I didnt have the house up for sale and trying to keep it looking nice, I would have considered this. But I do want the parking brake to work, so I am already kinda sorta needing to pull the console. I have Verell's lever bezels, so I can just as easily do those, as well as make sure everything is tidy down in there. In addition, the inner sheet metal behind the passenger fuel tank has peeling paint/undercoat. I may as well clean it up a bit and spray it to at least protect it for the future.

But after two years of monkeying around with 308's, I really just wanna drive the darn thing. I so far have only driven a 308 just under 100 miles over the last 6 years. I knew better than to try it once I seen and heard the front header cracks, but darn it, I was sure tempted. I have 100's of hours now into working on them, but I am now just about there. Once I get that swapped over, and put all that stuff back, I can get it out once and for all.

 

Thanks for the input Robert. Actually, both headers had busted up shielding. The rear had burned through from a broken header tube. The front? Most of it was gone, and all the insulation is totally gone. Its just some flaps of aluminum hanging around the header and Hackdude put a couple big hose clamps around what was left to keep it from rattling.

Im putting the headers off the other car on it for now. Now that I see what REAL US headers look like, I believe the other ones are euro. That have little threaded standoffs for attaching heat shields, whereas the car I am working on have totally different looking headers. I have sprayed the entire exhaust with 1500* header paint, including the ANSA muffler. This winter I will plan something different, for now its drive time.

I still laugh when I look at the build quality. All the welds look really pretty on the frame tubes until you get to a some bracket for emission junk, Then its the nastiest weld you ever seen, total crap. Its like Luigi was very proud to build a street racer for Mr. Ferrari, did his best work. Now the USA wants Luigi to add this useless bracket and hang this useless part on this beautiful machine. &$^#*@. Luigi he put it on, but you ainta gonna like it.

And did you all stop to consider. Almost all of the emission control parts and equipment are there only to make the car meet emission standards at idle, or while its not running? The air pump is only needed at idle, as is probably all that insulation on the headers. And all the canisters and lines and dodads are only there to collect the minor amount of fumes that might collect after you shut it off. The EPA, IMO, made a mess of everything by being to strict. If they had concentrated solely on driving speed exhaust emissions and taxed displacement, I think it would have been a happier world. It certainly would have kept our cars much simpler and easier to maintain.

 

When I first went to put my muffler on this car, I couldnt get the bolts past the shielding on the rear header. As the stuff looked torn, I thought I would pull it off. Well, what a darn mess. Nuvolari is correct. I dont know if its asbestos, but its nasty stuff. Took me over an hour working on the rear header, only to find a broken primary tube. The front header is missing over half the metal shielding, and all of the insulation. But they dont look as nice of headers as the other pair I have.

I dont know why I didnt just pull out the fuel tank, I guess having read someone saying they pulled it out from underneath I thought I could too. I cant. I even took out the motor mount bolts and slid the motor around. No joy. I slid it back and to the left, but there is still no way it will come out. Now I have so much stuff taken apart I think I will just pull the motor. Then I can put some seals and gaskets in it so it stops leaking and fully degrease the darn thing. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!

 

The headers from the other car are more than obviously NOT US spec headers. Either that, or the earlier car had a different style. They have welded places near the flanges where I assume test ports once were, yet they also have large plugs or "bungs" down low more towards the collectors.

But the early headers have threaded standoffs that are obviously to bolt on heat shields. FYI in case anyone missed it, early is car number 21181, the other is 21645. March and May build date 1977.

Wife forbids me doing any car work today, said she is tired of seeing me dirty, LOL. If I pull the motor, I will try to solve as many issues I can in as short of time possible, including Mr. Fillerneck. There are hoses that have clamps that litterally came off in my hands, they were that deteriorated. There is also some oil coming from somewhere, and I think its from the shift shaft. There is like no sense doing this level of work and not correcting that, does anyone know the size of the two O-rings that go in there?

One last thing. without pulling the fuel tank there is NO way that header will come out. I removed all the motor mount bolts, the torque rod, and both slid the motor back and jacked it up, and there is still not enough room to slip it out. I spent some time taking apart the console and removing the seats to be able to pull the shift rod forward, and its useless. Not a waste of time as I needed to gain access to the parking brake cable end, and to install Verells Bezels. But the point is, if you want that header out without pulling the engine, you have to pull the fuel tank. It might come out from underneath on some cars, but the amount of labor to pull the shift rod has to far exceed the time it would take to pull the fuel tank. Before I actually pull the motor, I will take off the deck lid. Its been on all along and I have worked around it, and it also limits how far I can lift the motor. If I can slip the header out with the motor jacked up higher, im going for it. Let ya know.....

 

As I just posted in another thread, I think the stock headers are crude. Outside of fixing or buying used, I would try having some custom made. All I did today is remove the deck lid. Tomorrow I will attempt to raise the engine up as high as I can and try to slip that header out without undoing much more. If I have to start yanking axle shaft bolts I will just pull the motor. Thats about all thats left now. But my fear is if I once lift it out, I will want to start fixing other things. I want to drive it, and I can tear it apart later or during the winter.

But I will say, other than a thing like this header, its really a simple car. Yes, it can be difficult to gain access to certain things, but its easy to work on. I had the seats and console out in under an hour. I am going to pull the shifter box and take it apart and lube it up. With nothing connected it seems to have a lot of drag and I feel it should be more slippery. So, does anyone know the o ring sizes for the shift shaft seals?