Moving to china - advice needed

[maranello71]

I have the opportunity to move to China for business - it would be 3 years in Nanjing. I would be very grateful if any of you who have been or lived in the area could give me some advice on the following issues:

1) Is the air really as polluted as they say? I have found contradictory information on the internet. Would it be healthy for a small child?
2) I have found residential areas where they rent luxurious "western villas", some of which are near large parks or forests. Is the air quality likely to be better in these areas?
3) Is it really so impossible for a westerner to drive a car around China? I thought that something like a BMW X5 with GPS navigation would be perfect.
4) How is Nanjing to live in? Is there a good expatriate community? Are the locals friendly and are at least few capable of speaking English?
5) On the subject of F-cars... I would obviously leave my 550 in Europe to use during holidays, but is there a "supercar" scene in the Shanghai area? Is it possible to hire cars (Porsches, Lotuses, not necessarily F-cars) for track days? I'd like to keep up my driving skills.

Thanks everyone
Andrea

[cwwhk]

Never been to Nanjing so can not comment on it, but relatively speaking Shanghai is a very cosmopolitan city compared to rest of China. Depending on your personality, you will either love it or hate it. It's definitely an adventure.

I doubt you'll enjoy driving in any China city, as all traffic rules are only loosely followed. And I don't think they have the map software for a navigation system yet.

For trackdays at Shanghai Circuit, it's far and few in between. The circuit is not really run in such a way as to generate lots of participation by the general public. However, you can sign up to race in the Formula Renault or Supercar Challenge series (Shanghai, Zhuhai, Beijing) for a lot less money than what you'd pay in Europe.

[WILLIAM H]

I met a westerner from Hong Kong years ago who told me there are plenty of sportscars in HK & that the city people sometimes blast through the country at high speed, sometimes taking out a few peasants

He told me the govt put electric fences around the highway to keep peasants off it

Ive also heard theft of sportscars is huge in Asia

[maranello71]

Originally Posted by WILLIAM H

Ive also heard theft of sportscars is huge in Asia

That's why mine will stay safe in its warm garage in Switzerland... It's only a 15 hours flight after all, I could come back to drive it for long weekends.

Interesting about the formula renault and challenge series. Is there a chinese ferrari challenge yet?

[cwwhk]

Originally Posted by maranello71

Is there a chinese ferrari challenge yet?

No official China Ferrari Challenge yet, but we have 11 Ferrari entries in the Supercar Challenge and the balance are all Porkers. You can see some pictures in another thread in Asia section.

[DILLIGAF]

G'Day

1) YES, pollution is quite high in China's industrial cities. Nanjing has some nice forests and hills. youg children develop sometimes asthma due to heavy pollution.

2) YES, air quality should be better around forest areas (do not compare with Swiss air quality in forests). highly recommend coming over, stay in 5 star / service appartment and check some different villas out. do not rent via internet agencies or believe pictures shown to you! inspect the villas yourself!!!!

3) YES, you can drive a car in China as a Foreigner, you will need a Chinese Driving License. China does not accept overseas / international driving license.
Nanjing - Shanghai by car takes around 3.5 hours on the expressway.

4) QUITE, not as much to do as Beijing/Shanghai. a lot cheaper compared to Beijing/Shanghai. expat community is quite big due to manufacturing companies. quite a number multinational companies are out in Nanjing: Ericsson, Phillips, Fiat (Iveco), BASF, etc...
the "Hello,Hello" from the locals will get on your nerves after a while. some locals able to communicate in English.

5) no excotics for rent to my knowledge. the Shanghai Circuit still has a very long day to go with trackdays.

regards, DILLIGAF

[Tifosi66]

What Diligaf said. I've been here two years shuttling between MY and CN and currently in Hunan province. Have been to Nanjing before and it's not too bad, english wise...Best is to upload the Chinese-English Translator software onto your laptop and lug it around if your Mandarin is nil.

The great thing about China is, even in the 'interior' regions they are a friendly lot. Not racist in the least and certainly very helpful to foreigners. I'm not white/black and of not chinese origins either and that kinda perplexes the villagers but I got along fine.

Even if you can secure a DL in China, you would'nt wanna drive here if you're used to Swiss kind of courtesy on the roads. If you however are used to 'Asian' driving 'techniques'....you'll be fine, except most roadsigns have NO English equivalent in some parts of China.

[mdraeger]

Originally Posted by WILLIAM H

I met a westerner from Hong Kong years ago who told me there are plenty of sportscars in HK & that the city people sometimes blast through the country at high speed, sometimes taking out a few peasants

He told me the govt put electric fences around the highway to keep peasants off it

Ive also heard theft of sportscars is huge in Asia

****, I'm gunna have to stop leaving the keys in the old girl.

Aisia is the kind of place where either you just can't wait to leave or you or you forget to leave. I'm the later. Came to HK for two years and forgot to go home. I've never been happier. Warning. Expat life style is a marriage destroyer. If you have any issues/ problems there, forget it. We see this every day. Sad. Otherwise do it. You will have a wonderfull 3 or more years. One piece of advise if I may, It was given to me early on here and it made all the difference.
SOME PEOPLE SEE PROBLEMS and SOME PEOPLE SEE CHALLENGES.
Good luck, mike D.

[nct]

Hi Andrea

I have been in Nanjing a couple of times this year, its a nice place, its got a good feel to it compared to bigger places like Shanghai, Guangzhou etc. China certainly is a place you will either like or loath, I came to China for a couple of weeks four years ago and never left so I guess I liked it.

The time I was in Nanjing the air wasn't too bad, but I guess my standards have changed from when I lived in New Zealand. Now if I can see a few kilometers thats a good day. The local food was good and there are many places to get food from other regions of China or western if you wish.

If you go there with an open mind, and appreciate the differences you should have a wonderful time. The only advice I can give is too not look at a three year plan, I tend to look no more than 6 months into the future. If I came here knowing I would have to live here for four years I probably would have gone crazy in the first few months. A back out plan is always good. I joke with my Chinese friends when asked how I can stay here so long, I always reply that being here is like being in jail with the door open, its not so bad knowing you can always leave

Good luck!

Cheers, Neil

[maranello71]

Thanks for all the advice...

Regarding a backup plan: I could always ask our CEO to send me back if I didn't like it, but that would destroy any chances of getting similar high-profile positions ever again. If I commit to this it will HAVE to be a three year plan, if I still want to have a career with my company.

Regarding marriage: my wife will come with me, she's British and she likes adventure. Our only concern is that in early 2007 she'll be having a baby, that's why clean air and safe water are important. We can wear PM10 masks when the air is bad, but a baby can't. My wife is an English teacher, I think she won't have problem finding a challenging job out there, they are always desperately looking for teachers.

Accomodation: I have found several "western villa" compounds where we could live in sheer luxury for 2000USD per month. This includes full house service, a chaffeur, club facilities with pool, tennis, fitness club, restaurants and supermarket. Some of these compounds are located at the foot of Purple Hill - a heavily forested area where (I hope) air quality should be better than in downtown.

Cars: Ideally I'd get myself a BMW X5 with a GPS system (if the sofware exists) and become independent as soon as I can. I grew up in Italy and I have driven in Rome and in Sicily - China can't be much worse . I'd love to have my 550 out there, but the quality of the roads and of fuel, and the lack of service assistance put me off.

[maranello71]

Thanks for all the advice...

Regarding a backup plan: I could always ask our CEO to send me back if I didn't like it, but that would destroy any chances of getting similar high-profile positions ever again. If I commit to this it will HAVE to be a three year plan, if I still want to have a career with my company.

Regarding marriage: my wife will come with me, she's British and she likes adventure. Our only concern is that in early 2007 she'll be having a baby, that's why clean air and safe water are important. We can wear PM10 masks when the air is bad, but a baby can't. My wife is an English teacher, I think she won't have problem finding a challenging job out there, they are always desperately looking for teachers.

Accomodation: I have found several "western villa" compounds where we could live in sheer luxury for 2000USD per month. This includes full house service, a chaffeur, club facilities with pool, tennis, fitness club, restaurants and supermarket. Some of these compounds are located at the foot of Purple Hill - a heavily forested area where (I hope) air quality should be better than in downtown.

Cars: Ideally I'd get myself a BMW X5 with a GPS system (if the sofware exists) and become independent as soon as I can. I grew up in Italy and I have driven in Rome and in Sicily - China can't be much worse . I'd love to have my 550 out there, but the quality of the roads and of fuel, and the lack of service assistance put me off.

[AC6]

Originally Posted by WILLIAM H

I met a westerner from Hong Kong years ago who told me there are plenty of sportscars in HK & that the city people sometimes blast through the country at high speed, sometimes taking out a few peasants

He told me the govt put electric fences around the highway to keep peasants off it

If you are talking about Hong Kong, then you had really been misinformed, and your informant is an idiot. You're not much better for believing it neither. Though I won't be surprised if you're being sarcastic since you never had anything nice to say about Asia anyway(specifically China).
Seriously, have you even been to these places before? If not, then its time to keep your ill-informed comments to yourself.

[ApeGen]

Originally Posted by AC6

If you are talking about Hong Kong, then you had really been misinformed, and your informant is an idiot. You're not much better for believing it neither. Though I won't be surprised if you're being sarcastic since you never had anything nice to say about Asia anyway(specifically China).
Seriously, have you even been to these places before? If not, then its time to keep your ill-informed comments to yourself.

lol.
I think the question should be: Have you even been out of the United States before?

Sounds like some trailer-trash comments...

Heres a better question: Do you love NASCAR?

[cwwhk]

I stand corrected. They do have SAT NAV in China or at least in Shanghai. I just came back from Shanghai and a friend of mine has it in his car. So you might be able to get one for Nanjing too.

[cwwhk]

Originally Posted by nct

.... I always reply that being here is like being in jail with the door open, its not so bad knowing you can always leave

You my friend have a great attitude.

[maranello71]

Originally Posted by cwwhk

I stand corrected. They do have SAT NAV in China or at least in Shanghai. I just came back from Shanghai and a friend of mine has it in his car. So you might be able to get one for Nanjing too.

Thanks. I found that I can make a short-term lease on a locally-built Audi A6 or a BMW 5-series complete with a 24-hrs personal driver, for a very reasonable amount of money. It's better this way, I heard from friends who have travelled in China extensively that while there are many modern highways, the Chinese tend to think in medieval terms when it comes to traffic rules. A friend of mine was being driven on a major highway last week, when his driver realised he was going in the wrong direction. He simply stopped and u-turned on the highway, and exited via the on-ramp, against the traffic flow!!!! And they saw a large truck doing the same thing... apparently chinese drivers are used to totally random driving rules and are able to swerve and avoid collisions, but a westerner would simply wet his pants and crash against a wall.

So I'll give up on the idea of driving...

[Michael Collins]

Hi
I missed this thread as I am on holiday in the US.

I have lived and worked and driven in China for the last 12 years, I am probably the only westerner who drives a Ferrari around Shanghai.
China is an acquired taste and nothing like people are lead to believe on CNN etc.

Pollution is heavy, as is corruption, but it not that bad. The problems are the chemicals they use on the vegetables and the way they look after food produce. Just be careful and sensible and you will be fine.

Personal safety, I have never felt safer than when I am in China, there is no undercurrent there at all, like I found in a suburb of Tampa last week, and having my car broken into in Newark the week before.

All in all China is great for a few years, which often develop into many years. Just do not come with the attitude that we do not do it like this in New York. China is China and there are a few things to learn.

Good luck

Michael Collins

[yellowjacket]

dont eat the chinese chicken and if it tastes good dont ask what it is

[maranello71]

Originally Posted by Michael Collins

Hi
I missed this thread as I am on holiday in the US.

I have lived and worked and driven in China for the last 12 years, I am probably the only westerner who drives a Ferrari around Shanghai.
China is an acquired taste and nothing like people are lead to believe on CNN etc.

Pollution is heavy, as is corruption, but it not that bad. The problems are the chemicals they use on the vegetables and the way they look after food produce. Just be careful and sensible and you will be fine.

Personal safety, I have never felt safer than when I am in China, there is no undercurrent there at all, like I found in a suburb of Tampa last week, and having my car broken into in Newark the week before.

All in all China is great for a few years, which often develop into many years. Just do not come with the attitude that we do not do it like this in New York. China is China and there are a few things to learn.

Good luck

Michael Collins

Thanks for the info. I recently found out that in China there is now a movement towards "healthy" eating - there are now brands of "non-polluted" (not joking!) , "green" and "organic" food available in the best supermarkets. Can you confirm that "organic" food will be safe and healthy to eat? My problem is that I'd have to move my wife and newborn baby there next year. While us adults can wear protective masks in town and look for the best organic food, I'm afraid a small baby would be far more exposed to the pollution & dangerous chemicals.

[DILLIGAF]

Originally Posted by maranello71

Thanks for the info. I recently found out that in China there is now a movement towards "healthy" eating - there are now brands of "non-polluted" (not joking!) , "green" and "organic" food available in the best supermarkets. Can you confirm that "organic" food will be safe and healthy to eat? My problem is that I'd have to move my wife and newborn baby there next year. While us adults can wear protective masks in town and look for the best organic food, I'm afraid a small baby would be far more exposed to the pollution & dangerous chemicals.

G'Day,

mostly all hot air & cheap talk!

i am in food importation (worldwide products into Mainland China) and distribution since 1989 in PRC = Peoples Republic of Changes!

another sidenote: my son (now 3.5 years old) was born in Shanghai and is very well.... make sure you have 100% health insurance that COVERS ALL THE COSTS OF YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY IN MAINLAND CHINA!!!!!

regards, DILLIGAF

ps: Shanghai has the so called O-Store: http://trading.ostore.com/

pss: serious advice: Swede + Kraut Restaurant Nanjing (14 Nanxiu Cun
Tel: 86638798) and ask for Patrick (owner).