Anticipating Beautiful weather : Lets Drive !

**amenasce** · #1 03-01-2007, 01:27 PM

So..lets see who would be up for a drive as soon as the roads are good again ?

Im dying to drive on anything else than lake cook and with some other people than myself

.

Who is up ?

ErikV10 · #2 03-01-2007, 04:30 PM

Have you thought of a date yet?

Hopefully it would be April cause I'm pretty much taken all weekends this March!

**amenasce** · #3 03-01-2007, 06:14 PM

No dates . Just starting this thread so we can organize a drive soon.

All dates , locations are welcomed !

**tifosi12** · #4 03-01-2007, 06:17 PM

Not to rain on your parade, but you realize that you don't have any insurance protection when simply organizing a drive this way? It's all cool until somebody looses an eye. There is a reason drives are organized by incorporated clubs with insurance background.

I hate to say this, but with your family background, you'd be a prime target. Sorry pal.

**amenasce** · #5 03-01-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Not to rain on your parade, but you realize that you don't have any insurance protection when simply organizing a drive this way? It's all cool until somebody looses an eye. There is a reason drives are organized by incorporated clubs with insurance background.

I hate to say this, but with your family background, you'd be a prime target. Sorry pal.

Really ? We organized drives before in the East coast and they seem to do it all the time .

By drive , i mean just some people meeting a driving as if they were going somewhere...do i need an insurance to do so ??

**tifosi12** · #6 03-01-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amenasce

Really ? We organized drives before in the East coast and they seem to do it all the time .

By drive , i mean just some people meeting a driving as if they were going somewhere...do i need an insurance to do so ??

Let's assume there is an accident caused by one of the participants. He kills a child going through a village. YOU as the organizer will be liable as well.

**amenasce** · #7 03-01-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Let's assume there is an accident caused by one of the participants. He kills a child going through a village. YOU as the organizer will be liable as well.

Even without any monetary involvment ?

**tifosi12** · #8 03-02-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amenasce

Even without any monetary involvment ?

Got nothing to do with that. We don't charge for drives, yet always buy insurance when we organize one.

The argument in court goes something like this: The reason the cars drove through village X is because YOU organized the drive and took them there. If you hadn't organized this, driver Y most likely wouldn't have driven there and not caused the accident.

On a sidenote: The fatal track accident two years ago in Calif opened a lot of eyes to people and clubs. One would think that waivers and insurances at track days would take care of things. Wrong. If bad things happen, not even those documents will hold up in court.

I'm not trying to scare you. In most cases nothing ever happens with any of these drives. But if something goes wrong, all will unravel very fast. Particularly if the sueing parties see that there is lots to gain.

Gilles27 · #9 03-02-2007, 08:34 AM

Okay, how about this:

"Hey everyone. I'm just letting you know that, as soon as it's nice outside, I will DEFINITELY not be going for a drive. ESPECIALLY not on APRIL___, because the last thing I want to do is DRIVE those RURAL WINDING ROADS... So don't JOIN ME"

Too transparent?

**David_S** · #10 03-02-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Got nothing to do with that. We don't charge for drives, yet always buy insurance when we organize one.
.

Looks to me like the attitude here is to let the lawyers win just as the terrorists have...

I say gather up some friends & go for a drive when the weather permits!

**amenasce** · #11 03-02-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

Got nothing to do with that. We don't charge for drives, yet always buy insurance when we organize one.

The argument in court goes something like this: The reason the cars drove through village X is because YOU organized the drive and took them there. If you hadn't organized this, driver Y most likely wouldn't have driven there and not caused the accident.

On a sidenote: The fatal track accident two years ago in Calif opened a lot of eyes to people and clubs. One would think that waivers and insurances at track days would take care of things. Wrong. If bad things happen, not even those documents will hold up in court.

I'm not trying to scare you. In most cases nothing ever happens with any of these drives. But if something goes wrong, all will unravel very fast. Particularly if the sueing parties see that there is lots to gain.

My question about money was because in France , for you to be held responsible , the jurisprudence decided that you have to have had some sort of financial compensation which makes much more sense than this horrible system

**tifosi12** · #12 03-02-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amenasce

My question about money was because in France , for you to be held responsible , the jurisprudence decided that you have to have had some sort of financial compensation which makes much more sense than this horrible system

That's not how the jury system works. Just imagine the courtroom for a moment: On one side the hard working blue collar middle class family in tears over the loss of their beloved child. On the other side some wealthy young guy (I'm being devil's advocate here) who flaunts his money by "racing" an exotic sports car on public streets endangering the public. Whom do you think the jury will help?

**amenasce** · #13 03-02-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

That's not how the jury system works. Just imagine the courtroom for a moment: On one side the hard working blue collar middle class family in tears over the loss of their beloved child. On the other side some wealthy young guy (I'm being devil's advocate here) who flaunts his money by "racing" an exotic sports car on public streets endangering the public. Whom do you think the jury will help?

If the young guy didnt kill the child , and was already 200 meters away when it happened , then i dont see why the jury would even think of him.

Now if the young guy killed the child by speeding in a village then yes, the Jury should punish him.

**tifosi12** · #14 03-02-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amenasce

If the young guy didnt kill the child , and was already 200 meters away when it happened , then i dont see why the jury would even think of him.

For the same reason the court took the track event organizers to the cleaners. They didn't hire the marshalls, they didn't set up the concrete barriers, they didn't drive any of the vehicles involved. But they organized the event. That's all it takes.

Anyway, I'm done "arguing". Do as you please, I just wanted to give you a warning/reality check as a friend.

**Webby** · #15 03-02-2007, 04:18 PM

Andrew if you want to do something as early as March, I'm on spring break the 10th-18th and I was planning to go up to Chicago just for fun anyway. I'd be glad to meet if you don't mind having me as a passenger

(I don't have a car)

**spike308** · #16 03-04-2007, 02:07 PM

So... when a bunch of us met at the Lake Forest Oasis and drove in tandum to Racine to see the 599's, did someone purchase insurance (above what we all [presumably] have)?
the drives to "the rock", to lake Geneva, etc... someone purchased additional insurance for those drives? Up LSD to Convito Italiano in Wilmette?

I cant wait to drive... Lets not get together and not drive!

**tifosi12** · #17 03-04-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike308

So... when a bunch of us met at the Lake Forest Oasis and drove in tandum to Racine to see the 599's, did someone purchase insurance (above what we all [presumably] have)?
the drives to "the rock", to lake Geneva, etc... someone purchased additional insurance for those drives? Up LSD to Convito Italiano in Wilmette?

I said I was done argueing, but since you asked: Because of the insurance issue I made it clear in my posts of the 599 event, that this wasn't a FOC organized drive. Events where you just show up and park obviously you don't need insurance. And if some of the folks gather somewhere to drive there, they do that at their own risk.
And yes, all FOC organized drives we had so far have been covered by insurance for which the club paid money. The insurance only covers the organizers from being sued in addition, nothing else.

BTW: I'm not paranoid, every good club does this. That's why FOC National has an agreement with an insurance company and I'm sure the same holds true for FCA.

Darolls · #18 03-04-2007, 11:05 PM

Everyone shut up and listen to Andreas!

If it's a 'Club' sponsored/sanctioned event, we do take out an insurance policy; as does the FCA, RROC etc.

Being the treasurer of the FOC, I can attest to that fact.

**spike308** · #19 03-05-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

I said I was done argueing
The insurance only covers the organizers from being sued in addition, nothing else.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darolls

Being the treasurer of the FOC, I can attest to that fact.

I'm not being argumentative... just asking. This is news to me.

Just curious... what does it cost to buy your way out of responsibility? Are the rates different in different states? What if we cross state lines?

Gotta love them lawyers... dispensating individuals from personal responsibility since 1925....

**tifosi12** · #20 03-05-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike308

I'm not being argumentative... just asking. This is news to me.

Just curious... what does it cost to buy your way out of responsibility? Are the rates different in different states? What if we cross state lines?

Gotta love them lawyers... dispensating individuals from personal responsibility since 1925....

Rate depends on distance driven, type of event and number of participants. State border is not an issue. Our drives typically cost about $ 300.