Brake lights as early as May . . .

**jknight** · #1 03-15-2007, 08:05 AM

The so called pinnacle of motorsports is about to take another step in reverse gear. This is one time I think I agree with the words spoken by Mark Webber (read below). The first turn excitement/anticipation will become meaningless!

What's next . . . . horns to honk to alert the person you are about to pass? headlights to blink to let someone know you want by? fog lights for rainy races? side marker lights? turn signals???

Carol

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Formula One teams are evaluating a proposal to introduce brake lights on their cars during the course of the season, this week's Autosport magazine reveals.

All teams tried the system during testing at the Barcelona and Bahrain circuits at the end of last month to evaluate its benefits.

The introduction of the system is aimed at warning drivers if the car in front unexpectedly decelerates or brakes. In wet weather, the light would still function as the rear light cluster as it will divided into two parts.

"It should be helpful if a driver unexpectedly brakes in an unusual place," Red Bull driver David Coulthard told Autosport. "I can remember a few times where I've felt that the car in front has braked-tested me - now we will know with more certainty."

Coulthard's teammate Mark Webber doesn't believe the system will be very useful, however.

"I don't see a massive benefit for them personally," Webber told autosport.com in Melbourne. "I know there are a few boys that would like them, mainly because of the run to the first corner.

"After that you will just be following this thing that is going on and going off. And I don't think you would use it as a reference to help you."

The results of the tests will be discussed with drivers and teams at a later date but no decision has been taken about the device's future use.

It is believed that the earliest realistic target for its introduction would be at the Spanish Grand Prix in May.

**tifosi12** · #2 03-15-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jknight

The so called pinnacle of motorsports is about to take another step in reverse gear.

Brake lights as used for years in endurance racing? Well, doesn't that appeal to you?

Anyway, brake lights in F1 are pointless. The rear lights are good enough for driving in the wet.

**speedy_sam** · #3 03-15-2007, 09:27 AM

Brake lights or not wouldn't make a huge difference to the racing. It makes a bigger difference to the TV viewers.

May serve as an small overtaking help for the drivers though. Say for instance you cut inside your competitor and both of you are heading down the straight. You wait for his lights to come on and then hit your brakes a millisecond later to brake deeper into the corner. But I think drivers are well aware today when the other guy brakes even without the lights (5 gs of braking force makes the slowing car disappear from view quickly.

Also from an accident analysis, it could help us figure it out better whether someone braketested another driver. The FIA has access to complete car telemetry to figure out who did what and when.

As a TV viewer, it can help us see that Kimi braked inside the 100m mark and was off the brakes before the apex or DC braked at the 110m mark and styed on the brakes till the exit.

**Tillman** · #4 03-15-2007, 09:39 AM

If implemented, it won't take long before someone's light "malfunctions" -- do you think it would be more disruptive to the other teams for the light to not come on at all, or to randomly flicker during the event? Maybe it only comes on 2/3 of the time -- or just has a delay in the circuit

RP · #5 03-15-2007, 10:37 AM

I did not realize the use of brake lights was ever removed. I thought they flashed when brakes were applied. Possibly they were mounted only in inclement weather?

**tifosi12** · #6 03-15-2007, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosiron

I did not realize the use of brake lights was ever removed. I thought they flashed when brakes were applied. Possibly they were mounted only in inclement weather?

I think you're referring to the central light on the rear wing mount?

That is not a brake light, but a flashing light for bad weather condition. Always installed, but only turned on when necessary.

RP · #7 03-15-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

I think you're referring to the central light on the rear wing mount?

That is not a brake light, but a flashing light for bad weather condition. Always installed, but only turned on when necessary.

Yes, you are right. That is what I am thinking about.

Remy Zero · #8 03-15-2007, 10:59 AM

Ferrari tested brake lights a few years ago at the Malaysian GP. i think it was 2002 or maybe 2003, i can't really recall.

all i know was, it's a positive step, for spectator wise. we really got to see how late Schumi braked. really amazing. but it's a no brainer racing wise. not gonna help overtaking, IMO.

**James_Woods** · #9 03-15-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tillman

If implemented, it won't take long before someone's light "malfunctions" -- do you think it would be more disruptive to the other teams for the light to not come on at all, or to randomly flicker during the event? Maybe it only comes on 2/3 of the time -- or just has a delay in the circuit

Tillman, you are a cruel man.

However, I do know for a fact that a Porsche 911 had a headlight flasher that you could pull back on to make lights in a tunnel. After a few hundred yards, you could turn on the real light switch so that the taillights would suddenly come on, effectively imitating brake lights.

This could prove quite unnerving to more powerful muscle cars who were trying to chase you down in the mountains...

spaghetti_jet · #10 03-15-2007, 02:18 PM

I could be wrong, but I thought the red light only flashed when the speed limiter was on, like coming into the pits and was constant red in bad weather and off completely the rest of the time?

**tfazio** · #11 03-15-2007, 02:37 PM

I hope this doesn't happen. It penalizes the driver running in first since those behind him will know exactly when he is braking.

**1_can_dream** · #12 03-15-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaghetti_jet

I could be wrong, but I thought the red light only flashed when the speed limiter was on, like coming into the pits and was constant red in bad weather and off completely the rest of the time?

It does come on and blink when the driver puts the pit limiter on, but they also have to turn on the blinking light during raes in the wet or fog where visibility is low. If you look for vids of Hungary 06 you'll see they all have the lights on while racing.

I for one think it's a stupid idea to have brake lights on the cars, if the drivers aren't quick enough to realize when someone else is slowing down then maybe they souldn't be sitting in a Formula 1 car.

PSk · #13 03-15-2007, 06:04 PM

Pathetic.

Seriously time for the idiot Bernie to go.

Anybody that thinks F1 is where racing is at should go and watch there local Formula Ford race meet ... miles better racing without all the commercial BS, money making wankers.

Pete

**mpatrizio** · #14 03-15-2007, 10:00 PM

I know that I'm in the minority, but I like the idea.

I love the opportunity to compare braking points when at the track or watching on TV.

Any glimpse that we get into the human input element of this series is a good one, IMHO. I don't care about computer telemetry graphics, I'd rather see it right on the car. Imagine watching Kimi brake a full second later than Alonso, then locking up all 4 wheels while making the pass.

The lights will show who had the bigger appendages!

t walgamuth · #15 03-15-2007, 10:34 PM

what's next? turn signals?

actually i agree with the above post.

why not? knowing exactly when someone else brakes does not actually benefit since it may not work for the next guy with a different car.

i think it will benefit the spectator and so it is good.

fake braking will happen too but so what? fake things already happen without lights. deception will always be a part of any game.

tom w

PSk · #16 03-16-2007, 01:00 AM

Surely you guys watching motorracing as a spectator don't need a light to tell you when he is braking, braking hard atleast. The attitude of the car tells you everything you need to know ...

Pete

senna21 · #17 03-16-2007, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosi12

I think you're referring to the central light on the rear wing mount?

That is not a brake light, but a flashing light for bad weather condition. Always installed, but only turned on when necessary.

This is correct but, I believe it also now functions as a brake light. The light flashes anytime the brake is not being used but when a driver touches the brake it'll go solid.

It should be in the F1 rules and regulations. I suppose one of us will have to look it up.

**Ed_Long** · #18 03-17-2007, 12:57 AM

Anticipating that such brake lights will indicate "exactly" when a driver is applying the brakes may be wishful thinking. These cars no longer require using the left foot to engage a clutch, they just use the shift padels. So, the left foot can be used to activate the light without significanty slowing the car. The following driver sees the light, his brain says oh ****, he is braking, so I better hit my brakes and the leading driver gains some distance on him. In early years of SCCA sports car racing it was not uncommon to find a little switch on the floor in front of the seat or on the steering wheel column that the driver could engage to active the brake lights before applying the brakes. So, this thing may be more deceptive than informative.