Ferrari owners what's your take on this?

[joesimtek]

From a new GT3 owner in an S2ki thread:


I would buy a F430 F1 in a heartbeat if you can find me one for $180k.

Thinking of buying a Ferrari and actually buying one are 2 completely different issues. Let me give you an idea:

1. You THINK you are making big bucks you are ready to go buy a Ferrari. So you go down to the local Ferrari dealership and tell them you want to put a deposit for a new car. The manager of new car sales will either - laugh at you or blow you off. You go home disappointed but come back a couple of months later just to dream a little more. This time the Used car sales guy gives you a few minutes of his precious time. He lets you in on a little secret. Buy a used car from them and then you can get on the waiting list. The more you get ripped off on the used car the higher you will be on the waiting list. Then you can buy a car in 2-3 years at MSRP(BTW this is a verbal agreement and the dealer doesn't really have to uphold it). But when you do buy that car at MSRP, make sure you trade in the car you bought from them so that they can flip to to the next sucker. Btw, this was my personal experience. I actually had the new car sales manager completely blow me off and ingnore me the 1st time I went to the Ferrari of Dallas(I was dressed nicely and had pulled up in my friend's Jag XK8).

2. When I was looking at the 2004 F360 the best finance rate I could find was 10.5% interest. That's with me having excellent credit. A 2007 Porsche can be bought for 4.9%.

3. Buying a $180k car means monthly payments are going to be approximately $4500 - 5200 PER month. Let me make sure you register that - $5k per month in car payments.

4. Insurance - Allstate told me that insurance on a 911S for me is $800/6 months. I don't know what it is for my GT3 but I will let you know. They said they probably couldn't insure my Ferrari. When I threw a fit -they said they will look into it but expect it to be $3500 - $4500 per 6 months IF they are willing to insure it. Btw, I have an excellent relationship with my agent. I insure 9 cars, 2 houses and 1 trailer with them.

5. Say you actually go through all this and decided to buy a Ferrari. Well, If you don't drive a Ferrari you are going to have more mechanical issues. If you do drive it and put miles on it then it will depreciate quicker. A clutch on F1 car is $4-5k. Routine maintenance is $1500 - 2k a year, $4-5k every 2 years for a major service on F360. The F430 is actually cheaper to maintain than a F355 or F360 since it comes with a Timing chain not a belt. The F355 requires the engine to be taken out for TB service. The F360 requires the panel behind the seats be taken out.

6. Any time you park it you are going to be absolutely paranoid about who is next to your Ferrari, is it scratched, bug splatter, etc etc.

As you can see buying a Ferrari is a whole different level of commitment than buying any other car. It truely requires that you be passionate about Ferraris. Oh and you have to be perfectly ok with being screwed by the dealer along the way many times over.

Btw, even with all this - I hope to get a F430 F1 someday in the future. I will just settle for my GT3 for now.

[turbos7903]

I can only speak from my experience. first I have owned several Ferraris and several Porsches. I have bought some used Porsches in the non-dealer market and a couple new porsches from dealerships. Every Ferrari has been used in the non-dealer market until the most recent purchase. Last month I took the plunge went to my local dealership who knows me only because of buying parts for my Fcars and local Ferrari concourse events. I traded my 360 modena which was an excellent example car with low miles and expected to take a hit financially. I bought a much more expensive used model from them with the caveat that I was now on the list to buy my next car at MSRP. They agreed (although not in writing) and I fully expect they will honor that agreement. They didnt require me to turn in my current Ferrari but the one I buy new will be required to be traded to them. They will return me the MSRP assuming low miles and good condition towards my next car...an so on ands so on and so on. As for insurance it cost me $15 more per month then the Porsche GT3 I had. By the way new Porsches are starting to depreciate like chevys. Add up the "real cost of ownership" which is purchase price plus maintenance plus insurance minus sale price after depreciation equals real cost of ownership. Do the same with a new Ferrari and the cost are not that different. By the way mine was financed at 7% not 10%. jon in Delaware

[wildshirts]

To me that seems a very strange process. How can they turn away custom if they place a diposit and sign an agreement? I no they cannot order a brand new car for someone who is messing them around but still cant they do a credit check?

Although gaining trust seems like a good idea it does not make great business sence.

Does this process happen in the UK?

[WCH]

"You THINK you are making big bucks you are ready to go buy a Ferrari."


I am making big bucks. I walk into the dealership wearing my best very large watch, armed with everything I have learned from years of studying The Robb Report, Cigar Afficionado and all of The Dupont Registries - homes, boats and cars. I smile through my whitened teeth. "Boy," I say to a sales guy in a cheap suit, "fetch me a new 430 at MSRP."

I waste some of my precious time listening to blah blah blah about the Ferrari market. Who cares? I scratch my nose conspicuously, making sure everyone can see my very large watch. More blah blah blah. I drove up in my $700/month leased car and am wearing several thousand dollars - not counting the $26,000 watch. I'd have imagined Ferrari guys could read potential clients, but these apes see too many tire kickers.

Finally I realize I don't have time for this. They don't want to sell me a car, fine, their loss; I'll go someplace where they know how to treat people with money, buy something even more expensive, drive by the Ferrari dealership and wave at them.

Then I'll get on the internet and tell the whole world what an ass I am.

[8 SNAKE]

Originally Posted by wildshirts

To me that seems a very strange process. How can they turn away custom if they place a diposit and sign an agreement? I no they cannot order a brand new car for someone who is messing them around but still cant they do a credit check?

Although gaining trust seems like a good idea it does not make great business sence.

Does this process happen in the UK?

This process happens around the globe. There are far more people willing to buy a new Ferrari than the supply of cars that are produced.

[mswiek]

Hmmmm. My Ferrari buying experience was actually quite pleasant. My sure fire advice on how to buy an F-car and be adored by your local F-car dealer. First, drive up in a 1980 Volvo 240. Proudly announce that you haven't bought a car in 25+ years because you haven't needed one. Add that you keep the Volvo looking pristine by spedning weekends at the junk yard scrounging parts. Then laugh at the idiocy of people who pay gross premiums over MSRP. Point to a car, name (don't ask or negotiate) a price, and write a check. Promise them that if they treat you right, you'll be back to buy your next one...in another 25 years...whether you need one or not. The ball is then definitely in their court.

Ferrari dealer must have thought, "this guy doesn't look rich at all and is a bit of a flake, ergo, he must be REALLY REALLY rich." Porsche dealers were unimpressed. I asked for a price and delivery date for a 911 Turbo cab from 3 different dealers, never got a call back. They probably thought, "this guy's a yutz. No bling. Only wears his sunglasses OUTSIDE, and doesn't even use hair gel. Definitely not Porsche material."

By the way, the understated old Volvo look works real well on high class women, too. My wife says she has been waiting for years for me to make the type of money she thought I had, so I will be worth divorcing.

[ZINGARA 250GTL]

Deal with Porsche and you take what you get. I did that only once!

Originally Posted by mswiek

Hmmmm. My Ferrari buying experience was actually quite pleasant. My sure fire advice on how to buy an F-car and be adored by your local F-car dealer. First, drive up in a 1980 Volvo 240. Proudly announce that you haven't bought a car in 25+ years because you haven't needed one. Add that you keep the Volvo looking pristine by spedning weekends at the junk yard scrounging parts. Then laugh at the idiocy of people who pay gross premiums over MSRP. Point to a car, name (don't ask or negotiate) a price, and write a check. Promise them that if they treat you right, you'll be back to buy your next one...in another 25 years...whether you need one or not. The ball is then definitely in their court.

Ferrari dealer must have thought, "this guy doesn't look rich at all and is a bit of a flake, ergo, he must be REALLY REALLY rich." Porsche dealers were unimpressed. I asked for a price and delivery date for a 911 Turbo cab from 3 different dealers, never got a call back. They probably thought, "this guy's a yutz. No bling. Only wears his sunglasses OUTSIDE, and doesn't even use hair gel. Definitely not Porsche material."

By the way, the understated old Volvo look works real well on high class women, too. My wife says she has been waiting for years for me to make the type of money she thought I had, so I will be worth divorcing.

[ZINGARA 250GTL]

Was that Algar per chance?


QUOTE=turbos7903;136751676]I can only speak from my experience. first I have owned several Ferraris and several Porsches. I have bought some used Porsches in the non-dealer market and a couple new porsches from dealerships. Every Ferrari has been used in the non-dealer market until the most recent purchase. Last month I took the plunge went to my local dealership who knows me only because of buying parts for my Fcars and local Ferrari concourse events. I traded my 360 modena which was an excellent example car with low miles and expected to take a hit financially. I bought a much more expensive used model from them with the caveat that I was now on the list to buy my next car at MSRP. They agreed (although not in writing) and I fully expect they will honor that agreement. They didnt require me to turn in my current Ferrari but the one I buy new will be required to be traded to them. They will return me the MSRP assuming low miles and good condition towards my next car...an so on ands so on and so on. As for insurance it cost me $15 more per month then the Porsche GT3 I had. By the way new Porsches are starting to depreciate like chevys. Add up the "real cost of ownership" which is purchase price plus maintenance plus insurance minus sale price after depreciation equals real cost of ownership. Do the same with a new Ferrari and the cost are not that different. By the way mine was financed at 7% not 10%. jon in Delaware[/QUOTE]

[ZINGARA 250GTL]

While you are right as far as it goes; dealers only get an allocation for so many cars. They want to nail sure fire deals without hassle on new cars. The real money is in the used car market. I am one of their used car customers (two cash purchases). I could probably make the move to a new one but, it would be iffy. I never talk financing, always cash. How I finance it is my business. I have a reputation now. I come, I see, I buy. End of subject. That buys bargaining power. Then, again, I had the money arranged before I ever walked in there. My 360 was bought because I had the cash and the guy ahead of me had issues. First things, first. You want it. You arrange the money. You go in. You pounce. Make your offer and prepare to walk out. Always works.

Now that I'm an old guy, I remember the advice of another old guy who told me that, "the man with cash is king." He also said, know you capability, know your credit card closing date, charge as much of the deposit as they'll let you. Make damn sure you have it covered.

Originally Posted by 8 SNAKE

This process happens around the globe. There are far more people willing to buy a new Ferrari than the supply of cars that are produced.

[Jack Russell Racing]

Mr. WCH, you made me smile this morning. Well written!

What about some $600 cufflinks to reflect the glitter of the watch?

[CornersWell]

Will,

Well, I'll be damned! I didn't know you had whitened teeth!

CW

[Bullfighter]

Originally Posted by joesimtek

From a new GT3 owner in an S2ki thread:

I would buy a F430 F1 in a heartbeat if you can find me one for $180k.

Thinking of buying a Ferrari and actually buying one are 2 completely different issues. Let me give you an idea:

... 2. When I was looking at the 2004 F360 the best finance rate I could find was 10.5% interest. That's with me having excellent credit. A 2007 Porsche can be bought for 4.9%.

3. Buying a $180k car means monthly payments are going to be approximately $4500 - 5200 PER month. Let me make sure you register that - $5k per month in car payments.

4. Insurance - Allstate told me that insurance on a 911S for me is $800/6 months. I don't know what it is for my GT3 but I will let you know. They said they probably couldn't insure my Ferrari. When I threw a fit -they said they will look into it but expect it to be $3500 - $4500 per 6 months IF they are willing to insure it. Btw, I have an excellent relationship with my agent. I insure 9 cars, 2 houses and 1 trailer with them.

5. Say you actually go through all this and decided to buy a Ferrari. Well, If you don't drive a Ferrari you are going to have more mechanical issues. If you do drive it and put miles on it then it will depreciate quicker. A clutch on F1 car is $4-5k. Routine maintenance is $1500 - 2k a year, $4-5k every 2 years for a major service on F360. The F430 is actually cheaper to maintain than a F355 or F360 since it comes with a Timing chain not a belt. The F355 requires the engine to be taken out for TB service. The F360 requires the panel behind the seats be taken out.

6. Any time you park it you are going to be absolutely paranoid about who is next to your Ferrari, is it scratched, bug splatter, etc etc.

As you can see buying a Ferrari is a whole different level of commitment than buying any other car. It truely requires that you be passionate about Ferraris. Oh and you have to be perfectly ok with being screwed by the dealer along the way many times over.

Btw, even with all this - I hope to get a F430 F1 someday in the future. I will just settle for my GT3 for now.

This whole thing has a whiff of sour grapes until the end when he owns up to still wanting one. So he insures 9 cars and yet we have to listen to a serial whiner:

First, the guy goes on about how expensive Ferraris are (breaking news...)

Then, we find out he would have bought it if only he could get it below market value.

Then, we learn that he needs to borrow his way into the car, and he starts whining about $5K car payments. (So, reading not too hard between the lines, he can't afford it. And it takes some chutzpah to complain about the potential size of the payments on the Ferrari you can't afford.)

Then, we learn that you have to worry about scratches, bug splatter, etc. when you buy a new Ferrari. (more news - I think he needs a well-used Jeep)

So, he bought a Porsche, which he will trade in a year (I predict) and take such a financial beating he could have done a couple of major services on the F430 he wanted.

What's sad is that I think if he went out and bought a great 360, CPO program car, for $130K or so, he would have the real deal and save $100K. I'll bet he has 9 Porsches/Benzes/Bimmers and went through this same process every time.

Sorry, zero sympathy here.

[Testacojones]

I don't know your position but, I only pay $1,000 monthly on my new F430(not a lease) and together with 2 other cars my insurance is little over $400. So it doesn't need to be that bad at all.
By the way if my luck goes to hell then I would be looking for a GT3, very nice car.

[BT]

Forget the 430. Get yourself a nice 348 and some Fixx CD's, cruise the beach and have fun (that's what I did)! Payments are low if you want to finiance them (around $850 per month) and the insurance is under $1000 per year. Plus most people think it is a newer model so you can still impress them.

BT

[hardtop]

When I made a deposit on what was to become a 430, I wore a tee shirt, jeans and a faded baseball cap. I never watches or jewelry.

I made one car payment when the car arrived, albeit somewhat larger than 5K.

Insurance runs abut $900. year.

1st year service was about $400. (this year wil be more).

Now looking at first new set of tires and alignment check, probaboy 1500. or so.

Only the first rock chip hurts, but quality touchup is not too expensive.

It's been in rain, slush and left out in motel parking lot where it got (perish the thought) frost on it. It has rock chips and nearly 8K miles and it's still worth more than I paid. Can't complain.

Dave

[Bullfighter]

Originally Posted by hardtop

... It's been in rain, slush and left out in motel parking lot where it got (perish the thought) frost on it. It has rock chips and nearly 8K miles and it's still worth more than I paid. Can't complain.

Dave

Obviously you'll disclose the frost incident to all future owners...

[ross]

your buying experience depends on the dealer and your location.

some areas (like london) have soooo many cars on the (barely) used market, that the dealers cant afford to be too rude.
some other places have not enough cars and a lot of people who think they want one, so the dealer can act stupid.

i dont like to deal with the new car bs anywhere anytime, AND more importantly i am cheap, and i am a trader so buying the top of the curve is taboo. so even though i could afford to buy something new, i dont really feel it is justified.

so, take my advice, pick what you like in the price range you already have money or financing for, then find it on the used market, check it out and if it is good buy it.

its pretty simple really. then hopefully when your car needs servicing you will have choices. i tend to go to independent guys, but i do plan to go to the dealer here in geneva because he (so far) strikes me as a decent guy.

in a nutshell, you do not have to be abused to buy a ferrari. only people who feel it is part of the process and WANT to be taken for granted and for a ride, will allow it to happen.

[Jsuit]

Originally Posted by WCH

"You THINK you are making big bucks you are ready to go buy a Ferrari."


I am making big bucks. I walk into the dealership wearing my best very large watch, armed with everything I have learned from years of studying The Robb Report, Cigar Afficionado and all of The Dupont Registries - homes, boats and cars. I smile through my whitened teeth. "Boy," I say to a sales guy in a cheap suit, "fetch me a new 430 at MSRP."

I waste some of my precious time listening to blah blah blah about the Ferrari market. Who cares? I scratch my nose conspicuously, making sure everyone can see my very large watch. More blah blah blah. I drove up in my $700/month leased car and am wearing several thousand dollars - not counting the $26,000 watch. I'd have imagined Ferrari guys could read potential clients, but these apes see too many tire kickers.

Finally I realize I don't have time for this. They don't want to sell me a car, fine, their loss; I'll go someplace where they know how to treat people with money, buy something even more expensive, drive by the Ferrari dealership and wave at them.

Then I'll get on the internet and tell the whole world what an ass I am.

LOL Will.... Nice seeing you today, btw..

[Simon^2]

buy an f40. it's been going up in value. and my insurance is under 3K/year.

[RonnieF430Spider]

If there was ever someone who is never going to own a Ferrari, its the fellow who started this thread!