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#1
10-02-2005, 08:41 PM
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An Intelligent Discussion on Sport Car Racing in the US !
Note the word "intelligent" ............. this IS NOT a NASCAR bashing thread or a France vs. Edmonson thread.
I went to Petite LeMans this past weekend and was really sad that we can't seem to get Sports Car Racing back on the map in the US like it existed in the mid 80's or early 90's. I hadn't been to an ALMS race as a spectator since 2000 and hadn't seen LMP cars compete since Daytona a few years back. It really hit home the differences between GA and ALMS. Both offer something different but both leave something lacking. Neither provides the complete package. I will say that after watching the ALMS cars this weekend, Barton W. is entirely correct in his arguement that ALMS has better race cars...both from a technology standpoint and from an asthetic standpoint. Simply put, the LMP cars, both LMP1 and LMP2 look better and seem much faster. Equally, the RSR's, Saleen, Aston's and Corvette's put it all over the more mundane GA GT class cars. The Astons and Corvette's were almost as fast on the straights the LMP cars provide some intoxicating noise (the Saleen sounds like thunder hit 5 feet from you). The drivers for the most part are all professionals who earn their living from racing (with the exception of one Mr. Leo Hindry). That being said however, the racing was not exactly fierce. With the exception of the Corvette and the Aston there was very little racing going on (the same lap) for most of the race. There were some exciting moments early on between the first three RSR's and there was a point midway in the race where the MC12, one of the Corvette's and the Aston were all running nose to tail for about six or seven laps. But the bottom line is that the Champion Audi had the race won after the first 90 minutes and other than two RSR and the Corvette and the Aston there wasn't much anticipation of close-down-to-the-wire racing. Contrast this to GA which has many battles that go down to the last few laps. That includes the 24 Hour which has seen very close battles the past two years. The same goes for GT class which has huge fields and close battles. There were only 30 cars for Petite LeMans and the field was wittled down to about half by the race's end. It's quite a shame that the two sides can't put aside their differences and create grand sports car racing in this country. It's a shame a compromise can't be formed so that classes in boths series can be created so that cars can compete in both series. Imagine an 80 car field at Daytona or a 60 car field at Road Atlanta. GA offers close racing that ALMS can't touch, but the flip side is that ALMS offers top tier racing technology and F1 like sports cars. As someone who has tested both the Porsche GT3 Cup and it's high priced sibling the RSR, I can tell you that any club racer with a good amount of skill can pilot a Cup car and be competitive. Not the case if you want to wring the last tenth out of the RSR or the Aston. The GT1 and GT2 cars in ALMS seperate the pros from the pay drivers. I gather I might be able to hang with a front line Cup car or maybe place in the top third at a GA race but there is no question after watching Patrick Long take the blind downhill in the dark last evening that I couldn't get close to matching his skill or his balls in an RSR. I realize business is business and that the owners of each respective series have no vested interest sharing their money coffers for the good of racing. It's just a shame that racing in the US is so fractured (witness IRL and CART). The bottom line is that US fans deserve the best cars and the best drivers at the best tracks with huge fields. Advice, opinions ! Regards, Jon 
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#3
10-02-2005, 09:23 PM
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jon,
i was also there and must agree w/ you on most of your points. alms is a pro series and the cars are unreal! audi had it won from lap one when the zytec was taken out. the gts clas was the draw and the astons and vettes were astounding. the "911" class would be made better if there were some cars other than ...911's! don panoz has done well and the event seemed to be well attended...that is good and w/ continued attendance, we may see more manufacturers show interest. we may see bigger grids next year w/ porsche and the lmp2 and hope bmw comes back too. i really loved seeing the race this year also and do hope for more participants going forward. we need a great platform for a real pro series in the states...a bit like what bishop had once built!
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#4
10-02-2005, 10:15 PM
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I watched some of the Petit Le Mans race as well and, considering recent Grand Am Rolex races, thought to myself, "Man, modern sports car racing is all about the competitors, not the fans".
One one hand, we've got ALMS. Very cool technology, beautiful cars, name drivers, but where's the racing? No doubt there are fast guys present, but I really didn't see any fierce battles on track this weekend. What's in it for the fans? Damned if I know! On the other hand, we've got NASportscar and their GA Rolex. Limited technology, relatively level playing field, cars with questionable aesthetics, but there is some racing going on! That said, it seems like they've got at least 80% of the overall Rolex field buying seats, one way or another. The DPs are notoriously easy to drive, which is why you're seeing a huge influx of gentleman drivers. GA also seems to have some issues surrounding licencing, since there are ongoing controversies surrounding evidently talentless pay drivers (read: Mae van-what's-her-name). Truly, NASportscar hasn't done a real marketing job with GA as of yet. As a driver, what would I like to drive? An R8, of course! Is that going to happen? Not likely. What's realistically down the road for me? Daytona prototypes and, from what I hear, it'll be a hell of a lot of fun. I hate to say it, but perhaps NASportscar should put ALMS out of its misery and standardize American sports car racing on the GA Rolex format. The cream of the ALMS crop will rise to the top in GA Rolex and we'll see a wider range of professional teams and drivers battling in some legendary races.
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#5
10-03-2005, 03:07 AM
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The fundamental question in my mind is how does a series attract the top drivers and top teams? Money, prestige, and safety, I assume. For that you need the spectators to get attached to the drivers and the teams. In other words... its about business and marketing. You need the Paul Taglibue of racing?
__________________
Use it... or lose it, Brian
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#6
10-03-2005, 08:03 AM
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Sad State of Affairs
It dosent seem to matter where we look these days, racing (regardless of
category) is increasingly becoming more and more fragmented. Witness the annoucement that even the World of Outlaws series is now under threat from a new breakaway Sprint Car series, the organizers of which havent seemed to have learned from what has happened with regard to the CART/IRL or the ALMS/GrandAM splits. No matter the type of racing, there is always someone out there who thinks they may run things better. And, of course, in this business the egos are such that when they set forth their plans for new series, some are based in reality and others are based on pure folly but both sides are too stubborn to give in to the other. Certainly, in American sports car racing, this absurd split is killing the sport which, in my opinion, is/was the intention of NASCAR when they began the GrandAM series to begin with. There is something to the edicts of both series, one of which has the slogan "For the Fans" by providing a series based on the world's most important race, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, with direct ties and rules to the ACO. To some, this may not be a positive step recently as the car counts have come down to embarrassingly low levels, especially when compaired to the incredible car counts of 1999-2000 when the ALMS was flush with huge manufacturer involvement and tremendous competition. On the other hand, we have a series created by the fertile minds of NASCAR who come straight out of the box and say "We dont care about traditional sports car fans" and "We want to make the cars irrelevant" (and these are DIRECT quotes). To this end, they have succeeded as these "non traditional sports car fans" have stayed away in droves and the uninteresting, intentionally low-tech cars have failed to create genuine a genuine following as the races have been reduced to caution-filled crash fests (one such race featured no less than 30 cautions this season). As media colleagues of mine who cover GrandAM say, "It's like a train wreck, you dont want to watch but you have to" and, of course, they have to go through a gauntlet in order to simply obtain credentials to these events only to be pushed, prodded, thwarted and harrassed by race officials and security (which seems to be under direct orders to make life difficult for media members) if they dare ask for an interview or take a picture of the wrong person. One such long established motorsport writer was threatened with expulsion, credential revocation and (yes) arrest simply by stepping into the Chevrolet Corvette garages at Daytona to interview the Earnhardts. So, it's little surprise that GrandAM has failed to resonate with the international motorsport media or caught on with fans as their marquis event which regularly drew 100,000 fans in the IMSA GTP days is now barely a blip on the International motorsport map. The ALMS, on the other hand, is featuring admittedly depleated fields but (interesting enough) increased televison ratings (even outdrawing IRL and Champ Car) and spectator counts have held strong which makes one wonder why the series still has no title sponsor. Many long for the days when genuine hero drivers were able to cross over from Champ Car to sports car to NASCAR to F-1 without all of the political/business implications seen these days (Sebastien Bourdais seemingly the only driver capable of being able to make these successful crossovers of late). The American racing landscape is a sad state of affairs to be sure with all of the corporate sponsorship dollars swirling down the NASCAR toilet and talented American drivers gravitating to pot-of-gold at the end of the NASCAR rainbow. BHW
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#7
10-03-2005, 10:00 AM
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I agree Jon, good post.
"I" could race toward the middle front of the pack in a Porsche GT Cup car in GA. I have no question of that and in fact may do just that in a few years if vintage and club racing does not provide the fix this disease demands. Then again, I am not sure I WANT to race in GA.... many of their events turn into a smash-up derby! Anyone who watched their event at the Glen or Barber knows there are MANY drivers in GA running the lower classes who have no business at all in a top level racecar. ALMS is better cars and drivers.... but as was said, no racing. Its just too expensive and the cost/reward ratio for a manufacturer is not there. Why? Because of the split. It very well may be that the NASCRAP biz guys have done this to kill sportscar racing in the traditional sense in some vain hope to make NASCRAP the only option out there for race fans. Still, no way around the fact that the cheaper to run series is where the good racing is. Large grids with parity in equipment is the name of the game! I would really like to see the prototype cars go away. Have the ALMS GT1 cars be the top class. Get more manufacturers involved. If we had full on race versions of top street sportscars (must use the stock bodyshell and suspension pickups) from Aston, Corvette, Porsche, Maserati, Ferrari, Saleen and others it would be AWESOME. Terry
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#8
10-03-2005, 10:15 AM
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A few factors that are contributing to a lack of sports car racing in the US.
1. Cost - unless you are a seasoned driver who can build a team around him, or you have a lot of liquid asset building a prototype car or even a tin top tourer is expensive. This keeps the people who have the talent in smaller amateur based series. 2. Interest - we have very little interest in sports cars in this country. NASCAR and to an extent IRL are what this country's roots of motorsports are in. In order for the sponsors to show interest there has to be a dedicated fan base, a fan base that consists of more than a handful of people. If I had control over sports car racing I would start at the grassroots, let the kids get into karts and then move them onto sports cars instead of dirt tracks and modifieds. Advertise it, make sports car racing cool (yes it sounds cliched) so that the average person takes an interest which in turn causes the sponsors to take interest. Look at the 12 hrs race at SP, you had a PTG BMW, a Porsche once raced by Mika Hakkinen and Michael Schumacher and a Miata being run by Jeff Altenburg and yet there were very few spectators and very little media coverage. The grouping of classes would increase field size, create a class that allows very little modification and low costs and you will have large fields. Money is a big limiting factor in this sport.
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#9
10-03-2005, 11:29 AM
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Certainly, the rival series have widely varying budgetary constraints. The fans spoke loudest when the ALMS began featuring big budget factory teams such as BMW, Audi and Panoz. But, as these factory teams began to scale back, interest declined and even Panoz, the series founder, has pulled back his efforts to a GT-2 effort.
But, we now read about the budget conscious GranAM series where one of the better funded/sponsored teams has had to withdraw from the last events of this season stating budget concerns. Seems interesting since development of GrandAM cars (sorry, I have trouble calling them "prototypes") is non-existant and some of these very teams are eyeing the ALMS once again as a viable alternative since (as previously stated) GrandAM receives very little media attention, horrible television ratings and the television and media attention in the ALMS is so much higher, thus a bigger bang for the promotional buck for potential team sponsors. In light of all this, the ALMS seems to still lack genuine brand recognition in the eyes of the non-motoring media. For example, when Dale Earnhardt, Jr. crashed the Corvette in flames at Sears Point last year (an incident which made national news) in each and every instance, television news called the ALMS race a "NASCAR Rally" and "NASCAR Grand Prix", everything but an American Le Mans Series race. Thus, what we may conclude from this is, that all of racing in America is now called "NASCAR" in the eyes of regional and national media which must please those fat humps in Daytona Beach no end. The ALMS's relucatance to take on a title sponsor is curious in this case since the heydey of the series (the GTP era) the name recognition of "Camel GT" resonated with fans and media alike and it would seem that the ALMS front office would be working overtime to land such a title sponsor to give the series a better brand identity. BHW Last edited by BartonWorkman; 10-03-2005 at 11:31 AM.
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#10
10-03-2005, 11:31 AM
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It's not just sports car racing that's in crisis. As others have pointed out, all forms of racing from F-1 to World of Outlaws are under siege. I prefer ALMS to Grand Am, but the fields are small and getting smaller. What happens when Audi leaves?
CART blossomed when F5000 and Can-Am teams left road racing and moved on to single seaters. I wish the same would happen in reverse. Let's see the IRL teams and CART teams move to ALMS and rev things up. Unfortunately. ALMS can't recruit IRS teams because it will cut into their G Force chassis business. Their hands are tied. Technological diversity and experimentation draw fans to racing. The trouble with racing today is that the major breakthroughs have already been made. Aerodynamics, chassis and tire design are no longer breaking new ground. Advances come from massaging the current formula rather than experimenting with new directions. Take F-1. Switch liveries on the front running F-1 cars and see how many people realize that the car wearing the McLaren West logo is really a Ferrari. Aerodynamics dictate that the difference between most single seater designs are measured in degrees that most people can't recognize. It costs millions to cut a thousandth of a second off lap times when the formula is so thoroughly massaged already. That's not to say that manufacturers wouldn't spend millions on freer rules formulas as well. The series that survives will be the one that can put the spectacle and imagination back in racing without breaking the bank. Is it possible? I don't know, but it's necessary if racing is going to be anything more than a carny side show like NASCAR. Perhaps we need awards and concessions for hybrids and new fuel sources. Racing has to be relevant to the times. I'd like to see us move back to racing cars that are modified street cars rather than tube frame replicas. How about a series that pits production 'supercars' against one another? Enzo vs. Carrera GT, vs. Bugatti; F430 vs. Gallardo vs. Ford GT; BMW M5 vs Audi RS6 vs Cadillac. Let's see who's really building the best street legal cars. Limit modifications, retain suspension parameters and basic braking systems, keep standard engine design and see who finishes first. Would you attend a race that will prove that the F430 in your garage is superior to your neighbor's 996TT or Gallardo? Sure you would.
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#11
10-03-2005, 11:46 AM
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If you want to make money racing cars these days, the only choice is drifting and the import scene. Otherwise sports car racing is an expensive hobby for either the owner that hires drivers or the drivers that pay for seats. World Challenge and Grand Am Cup have been able to capture a little of the youth market and interest, but no other sports car series has.
I'm a sports car racing fan and I club race myself. I've only seen a couple GA or ALMS races on TV all year and nothing start to finish. It just doesn't interest me, so if they can't sell me on it, I don't think hardly anyone is buying. I will watch Daytona 24, Le Mans, and Laguna Seca races, but otherwise I would rather watch World Challenge or even the SCCA Runoffs that just completed. If we had a live race in the DFW area, I would definitely go, but I go to all the NASCAR and IRL races live too.
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#12
10-03-2005, 12:00 PM
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Good point, Rob.
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#13
10-03-2005, 01:08 PM
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I admit to not having much interest in Petite Le Mans this year and completely forgot about it until arriving home Saturday evening in time to catch the last hour or so of the Speed broadcast.
I was pleased that Emanuele Pirro (one of the genuine gentlemen of the business) and Frank Biela won the race and the ALMS championship. Sad but true, the real fireworks are in the GT-1 category with the Corvettes, Aston Martins, Saleen and bridled Maserati MC-12 and the coverage (especially the on board footage) was outstanding. Next year should provide more Aston Martin DBR9s and hopefully a renewed interest in the LMP-1 and LMP-2 classes but for the past couple of years, frankly my own interest has declined greatly and cut to the core with the arrival of the DBR9s only for Aston Martin Racing to dump cold water all over their own effort, writing 2005 off as a "testing and development year" and lowering expectations to the point where fans and Aston Martin Owners Club Members were told, in not so many words, to stay away from Sebring leading up to the 12 Hours. The only tonic for the ALMS malaise would be to have more top drivers like Tom Kristensen and Allan McNish to do more races than just Sebring and for more manufacturers to pull the trigger and get involved. The Porsche LMP-2 debacle leading up to Petite Le Mans certainly did not help matters. Audi will bring a new car, the R10 to the game next year with what is reported to be a diesel engined, enclosed cockpit prototype which should spice things up a bit but this "wait until next year" stuff is starting to wear thin and the legitmate motorsport media has been grumbling for a while now. BHW
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#14
10-03-2005, 03:23 PM
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Capturing and growing a fan base is extremely difficult for most sports, perhaps none more so than racing. I remember discussing in another thread (not Nascar bashing
 ) that even though I had an affinity for cars as a wee-one, it wasn't until my first trip to the Indy 500 that I caught the racing fever. I enjoy all forms of racing, but I've always said that TV doesn't do the sport justice, and you're not going to generate new fans through the tube. Especially with an enduro. Where auto racing suffers is in the in-accessability of it. A large number of us live near baseball or football stadiums, which host multiple events each year, but how many so are within an hour or two of a major track? Add to that the split between rival series and the casual fan will be easily discouraged from making heads and tails of the two. I love the ALMS product, but was disappointed on Saturday to see only 7 GT1 cars on the track. I've grown tired of "affordable" racing as a marching cry for GrandAm. Quantity and Quality are seldom equal terms. Racing is supposed to be expensive, and if GrandAm wasn't running a "quantity" series, then I believe the "quality" of ALMS would increase in numbers. Bottom line is to find a way to get people to the track, which will help sell the product and generate ratings.
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#15
10-03-2005, 03:47 PM
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Very good points but the series all seem to be basing their success/failures
on television ratings as that is what the media buyers set as their own gold standard. Scott Atherton goes on at long length about how the ALMS ratings are regularly better than that of Champ Car or IRL but the point goes back to brand identification which is one place where the ALMS is failing in the eyes of mainstream media. However, given the product and the affluent market the ALMS appeals to, Atherton paints a very rose picture for the future of the ALMS. Granted, taking the course of putting the product in front of the people (a-la what CART tried to do and what ChampCar is going to try and do) with more "big market" city street races isnt always the best answer. So, it then comes down to marketing and getting those in the big cities to come out to the tracks as they do in the case of Sebring, marketing goes into the Tampa Bay, Orlando and South Florida markets as only in very rare cases do street races succeed for one reason or another. When CART was in it's heyday, I asked one of the team marketing managers why they dont race at Sebring. He was response was "Not big enough of a market" with a scoff. It was then interesting to see this year, ChampCar working overtime to get a season opening date at Sebring on the same weekend as the ALMS 12 Hours. The deal eventually fell through due to "logistics" but none the less, if the product is good, people will come to remote locations to see a race. To me, the ALMS would be much more high profile if there were some American drivers in the top rides. How it is that Audi of North America has been involved since 1999 and only one American driver (Dorsey Schroder) has ever driven an R8 is beyond belief. While the inclusion of American drivers would not bring immediate attention to the series, it wouldnt hurt either and there are plenty of young American drivers with enough talent (and we're in the business of selling talent now not those with the biggest suitcase full of cash) to compete in the top levels of sports car racing. I dont recall anyone complaining when top American drivers such as Peter Gregg, Hurley Haywood, Al Holbert, et.al were competing and winning on a regular basis on the International sports car stage and none of those guys ever paid for a ride. BHW
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#16
10-03-2005, 06:40 PM
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I was very pleased to see that Speed had the Le Mans Endurance Series on yesterday fom Silverstone - only for an hour but at least it was an hour of something other than Nascar. It was great to see the female competitors and I've always cheered for Vanna Ickx when we've seen her driving Porsches at the F1 support races. The other females deserves lots of credit for being out there running alongside the guys. I was equally happy to see Liz Halliday take first with her team (Clint Field and dad) in LMP2 at Petit Le Mans - quite a lady as she was headed immediately after the race to England and on to a major horse jumping event. She is hoping to land a seat on the US Equestrian team for the next Olympics. Definitely multi-talented - I wish her the best. AMERICAN LE MANS SERIES 2006 SCHEDULE March 18, Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring, Sebring, Fla., SPEED May 12, Lone Star Grand Prix, Houston, CBS Sports May 21, American Le Mans at Mid-Ohio, Lexington, Ohio, CBS Sports July 1, New England Grand Prix, Lakeville, Conn., CBS Sports July 15, Grand Prix of Utah, Toole, Utah, CBS Sports July 22, Portland Grand Prix, Portland, CBS Sports Aug. 20, Generac 500 at Road America, Elkhart Lake, Wis., SPEED Sept. 3, Grand Prix of Mosport, Bowmanville, Ontario, SPEED Sept. 30, Petit Le Mans, Braselton, Ga., SPEED Oct. 21, Monterey Sports Car Championships, Monterey, Calif., SPEED Looks to be a good year for endurance racing. We'll definitely have to go to Houston (sure would be nice if Guiseppe could run a second MC12) and the twelve hours is during spring break - yipee! Carol
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#17
10-03-2005, 09:24 PM
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#18
10-04-2005, 06:01 PM
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How popular is the Super GT series (formerly JGTC) in Japan? Are the drivers and teams well supported? They seem to have some really interesting fields, from old Maclaren F1's to Boxster RSR's, and no prototype/LMP cars. I've really only read about the series and was wondering how it ranks in popularity in Japan. Seems like this formula could work in the US.
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#19
10-04-2005, 06:13 PM
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#20
10-04-2005, 06:24 PM
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Personally I want something like the V8 Supercars in Australia. I've never seen a bad race. Of course the only ones I've seen are televised and those are few and far between. Anyways I dont have cable so I dont get SPEED which may be a good thing considering NASCRAP seems to be the only thing they televise.
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1986 Ferrari 328 GTS
1995 Ferrari 355 Challenge
2005 Maserati GranSport
