Which will become the McFerrari: 360 or 430?

**ryalex** · #1 12-18-2005, 11:14 PM

With ~19,000 360's out there, and a suggested target of 25,000 430's to be churned out, do you think that people will look back on the 360 or 430 as "that Ferrari everyone has..." and lose interest over time in the same way the 996 Porsche seems to have? Will they be just to common? Or is the world population expanding enough proportionally with Ferrari production and swath of new merchandise?

Do you think 355's will be more valuable in the longer run (as we're seeing 328's overtake 348's in value)?

Will Ferrari become Adidas of the early 80's: burn out their brand image through overexposure and become "uncool?"

Admiral Thrawn · #2 12-18-2005, 11:32 PM

No

**hardtop** · #3 12-18-2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryalex

With ~15,000 360's out there, and an even larger batch of 430's to be churned out, do you think that people will look back on the 360 or 430 as "that Ferrari everyone has..." and lose interest over time in the same way the 996 Porsche seems to have? Will they be just to common? Or is the world population expanding enough proportionally with Ferrari production and swath of new merchandise?

Do you think 355's will be more valuable in the longer run (as we're seeing 328's overtake 348's in value)?

Will Ferrari become Adidas of the early 80's: burn out their brand image through overexposure and become "uncool?"

308's were considered too common but they have legions of fans now. 328's are overtaking 348's becuase it's a better car. There are fewer 348's. In the long run, each model will probably be more plentiful than the previous, so record production numbers of today will be eclipsed. 355's are plenty common as it is, I don't see them ever being more valuable than 360's because the 360 is a much better car. In the long run, when performance is less of an issue, popularity (and therefore value) will depend on 1. looks 2. driving experience 3. overall cost to own.

Dave

silvertarga · #4 12-19-2005, 12:10 AM

In my view neither, although if the 430 were produced in very large numbers and is followed by a better looking car, essentially the fate of the Porsche 996 you mention, the 430's resale value could suffer. Of the three Ferraris -- 355, 360, 430, the 360 is the best combination of looks and handling. The rounded fenders and rear of the 360 makes it a better looking car than the more angular 355. The fact that the 355 was produced in fewer numbers is not going to push the 355's value over that of the better looking, handling and powered 360. As to the 430, while it is a nice car, the 360 rear air scoops are better integrated to the body than in the 430. Pushing them out from the body in the 430 rear resulted in an aftermarket add-on look that will pale in time. The view of the 360 from the rear is classic; the view of the 430 from that perspective is not good. The enzo style lights don't work as well. One can debate the merits of the two front ends, but to me the sideways tear-drop cut-outs don't work as well. (The similar openings on the old racing Ferrari's looked smaller and more elegant.) The 430's added horsepower is a plus, but at 400 hp the 360 is more than adequate. The Porsche 996 has more power than its more desireable predecessor, the 993, but the 996 has a bland body shape with seriously unappealing headlight treatment (second only to the BMW big butt as a design mistake). So the 360's situation is similar to the Porsche 993 -- it is a more appealing design than its predecessor and successor. The 993 has the added advantage of being the last of the air cooled Porsches. None of this means that the 360 won't depreciate for a number of years, like the Porsche 993, but it won't become a McFerrari.

**elgin328** · #5 12-19-2005, 12:10 AM

Don't think 328's are overtaking the spiders or ever will. & I have owned both

**judge4re** · #6 12-19-2005, 12:40 AM

What will be real interesting is in 20 years if you can get electrical parts for the newer cars. Anyone priced the sat/nav for the F430 yet? Me thinks in 15 years, a lot of them will have black screens...

**SRT Mike** · #7 12-19-2005, 01:15 AM

I dont think 360's and 430's will hold their value long term. When I was a kid, the TR was *THE* car to have. I am amazed at how cheap they are now. Of course, now, I would want a 512M, but if I just wanted a TR, they are cheap just because so many were made.

Many more 360's than TRs were made, and there will be more 430's than 360's. I think it will take a while - like 20 years - but 360's will be able to be had for cheap money - IMO maybe less than 308's can be had in today's dollars. But we shall see.

**donv** · #8 12-19-2005, 01:42 AM

Hopefully! Then I will be able to get a nice one cheap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryalex

Will Ferrari become Adidas of the early 80's: burn out their brand image through overexposure and become "uncool?"

sobe · #9 12-19-2005, 02:03 AM

you got one thing right , the 996 put an end to an era for Porsche but it did not seem to hurt sales one bit .

**VTC** · #10 12-19-2005, 03:13 AM

I think they are pushing out more cars today than yesterday for the mere reason of..................LEASE!

Before leases became so poplular, Porsches, MBZ, Ferrari and everybody else had a lot less people to sell to.

sobe · #11 12-19-2005, 04:07 AM

With the price of a house doubling in just a few years cars seem cheap .

ROGUE GTS · #12 12-19-2005, 04:15 AM

What you guys don't already see 360's as very common, heck I see them everyday, sometimes half a dozen or more. So yes I do believe they will/are considered the "common ferrari." But on the other hand they are also exactly what people think of when you mention ferrari.

Note: My perspective on things is obviously way off kilter based on the area, and is likely not as common for everyone else.

**Andy 308GTB** · #13 12-19-2005, 06:36 AM

I think that the 355/360/430 price differential will become become very narrow. This is testament to the classic look of the 355 which still shows the 246/308/328/348 lineage. The similarity in looks between the 360 & 430 and the numbers produced will not help their prices in years to come.
All three sound great and have exceptional performance which to many secondhand buyers in years to come will be enough - the fact that the 430 is better than the 360 will, in normal day to day use, make little difference to the buyer and as result the values.

staatsof · #14 12-19-2005, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donv

Hopefully! Then I will be able to get a nice one cheap.

It won't be the getting that will be important then. It will be the maintenance. These later cars will be much harder if not impossible for a DIY or independants to fix.

sobe · #15 12-19-2005, 07:00 AM

When the warranty is up it is time to sell .

**vlamgat** · #16 12-19-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobe

When the warranty is up it is time to sell .

He si right of course, if hassle is the determinant of value, which for many is not the case. Some really interesting comments here though in the light of what promises to be the largest dollar appreciation year ever, when the Barrett-Jackson auction gets underway in January.

Personally I think the F cars are becoming increasingly marginalized in the US value stakes as the Baby Boomer generation ages. Editor Martin of SCM says that there has not been a valuable car built since the last "bbomers" of the early 70s and late 60s and he has an undeniable point. Since then its been bling, bling and more bling, which will require another generation to appreciate. As someone said earlier, the TR WAS the image and today its a yawn ... for most. I own one so I can speak and rabid dogs could not pry it out of my fingers!

So my point is, none of the current crop are going to be worth much until they are officially vintage (25 years) and then its going to be the flavor of that day. The BB generation are (say) 60 or so now, and the TR is 3 years short of its design reaching vintage but 9 years from the whole series being eligible for vintage and hence appreciation. By then the average BB has Florida thoughts and many will have lost the ability to handle the TR clutch and its quirky shift. Belt replacements will either no longer be necessary or will cost $30K or more and gas will be ...who cares! So no one knows. If 1969 MOPARS can sell for $200K, then its conceivable that a Subie WRX could be the flavor of the 2014 day so I am not holding my breath for a appreciating TR. Instead, as William H. has been known to say on these pages - drive, drive and drive some more - Sr. Ferrari nor his designers ever intended it otherwise.

**mgtr1990** · #17 12-19-2005, 08:01 AM

These volumes are still small compared to mass produced cars and the market is there for them and more importantly they are beautiful cars who knows what the future holds drive them and enjoy them or you will get analysis paralysis.

parkerfe · #18 12-19-2005, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryalex

With ~19,000 360's out there, and a suggested target of 25,000 430's to be churned out, do you think that people will look back on the 360 or 430 as "that Ferrari everyone has..." and lose interest over time in the same way the 996 Porsche seems to have? Will they be just to common? Or is the world population expanding enough proportionally with Ferrari production and swath of new merchandise?

Do you think 355's will be more valuable in the longer run (as we're seeing 328's overtake 348's in value)?

Will Ferrari become Adidas of the early 80's: burn out their brand image through overexposure and become "uncool?"

Yes. The 360/430 and likely future v8 models will always be the "entry level" Ferrari just like the 308/328/348 and 355 were. And with Fiat now excercising its muscle to have more control at Ferrari, they will likely increase production even more of the v8 models in the future.

**Andy 308GTB** · #19 12-19-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkerfe

And with Fiat now excercising its muscle to have more control at Ferrari, they will likely increase production even more of the v8 models in the future.

If this is happening/happens it will be very sad. I guess Ferrari have been very fortunate over the years to have had the backing of Fiat but without too much interference.
The watering down of the 'brand' fills me with horror.
If demand is so strong for the entry level cars why don't they shove up the price further to make their money rather than increase volumes?

parkerfe · #20 12-19-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy 308GTB

If this is happening/happens it will be very sad. I guess Ferrari have been very fortunate over the years to have had the backing of Fiat but without too much interference.
The watering down of the 'brand' fills me with horror.
If demand is so strong for the entry level cars why don't they shove up the price further to make their money rather than increase volumes?

From what I've read di Montezomela and Todt are both on their way out...so, if Fiat puts a bean counter in charge the F1 budget will be cut and car production increase to make more money to cover some of Fiats billions of lira in loses!