328 at FofA

**DrewStoddard** · #1 02-26-2006, 02:11 PM

I've recently found a 328 at Ferrari of Atlanta that I'm considering.

(88.5 40k miles, recent service $54k)

My question is, why are the dealer prices so high and do they get away with it?

I've noticed the same things from other dealers such as Ferrari of Denver...

I'm under the impression this price is inflated just as the '89 they have for $67k is.

**Scaledetails** · #2 02-26-2006, 04:14 PM

I agree, overpriced in my opinions, both cars. Huge dealer markup @ FOA as always, but their cars are usually pretty clean and well serviced. I am going there Monday, let me know if you want a closer look and second opinion.

Stephane
Scaledetails

**doug328** · #3 02-26-2006, 05:08 PM

Agree as well, over priced. Recient service, how recient,what kind(major/minor), and what was done. Sometimes tensioner bearing are not done on a 30K service. What color. Red gives the highest resale, any other color drop 5 -10% of the price. Most important is condition. If a PPI checks out, offer $47,000 and settle on $49,00-$50,000.
To answer your question, they ask the high prices because experience tells them that most of the time they will get someone to pay close to it. IE: someone who wants a Ferrari, does not want to do a lot of leg work shopping around, and is mabe not that well informed about current prices.

**285ferrari** · #4 02-26-2006, 05:15 PM

All dealers ask a very high price--I guess once in a while they get a sucker in there and it works out for them. I bought mine for 6k less than what the dealer was asking. If you go in there and know what your talking about the dealer will be more apt to lower the price and work a deal with you...

**Bullfighter** · #5 02-26-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewStoddard

I've recently found a 328 at Ferrari of Atlanta that I'm considering.

(88.5 40k miles, recent service $54k)

My question is, why are the dealer prices so high and do they get away with it?

I've noticed the same things from other dealers such as Ferrari of Denver...

I'm under the impression this price is inflated just as the '89 they have for $67k is.

If the car had 20K miles and the complete major with tensioner bearings was done last week, $54K would be fair retail. At 40K miles, I agree the price is stiff.

While it's probably a good thing mechanically that it has 40K miles, the market gets pretty thin for 328's with over 50K miles, so you're looking at car that's nearing the end of its prime from the market's perspective. I was offered (twice) a perfect -- PERFECT -- Concorso Italiano platinum winner red/tan 87 last year that had 48K miles on it, and the price went from the high $50K's down to the mid $40K's over the course of the several months the car didn't sell.

Dealer prices are higher for several reasons, one of which is that if you have serious issues with the car they know they're on the hook (formally or by reputation). You have to decide what that's worth to you.

kirk · #6 02-26-2006, 11:45 PM

I am thinking about selling my 328. PM me if you are interested.
I would like her to go to a good home...

Kirk

**DrewStoddard** · #7 02-26-2006, 11:54 PM

First off, thank you all very much for your feedback.
I would much rather have the lower miles and be ok with an inflated price.

I know the dealer is selling the car on consignment.

I'm very interested and excited about the blk/creme...bullfighter, did you consider this combo as well? What made you rule on the blk/tan and even the met blk?

I'm an odd person, when I sense that someone is trying to take advantage of me from the start, I'm completely turned off from doing business with them. This is part of my dilema because as Bullfighter can tell you, it's difficult to find a nice 328 blk/tan.....

**Bullfighter** · #8 02-27-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewStoddard

First off, thank you all very much for your feedback.
I would much rather have the lower miles and be ok with an inflated price.

I know the dealer is selling the car on consignment.

I'm very interested and excited about the blk/creme...bullfighter, did you consider this combo as well? What made you rule on the blk/tan and even the met blk?

I'm an odd person, when I sense that someone is trying to take advantage of me from the start, I'm completely turned off from doing business with them. This is part of my dilema because as Bullfighter can tell you, it's difficult to find a nice 328 blk/tan.....

I'm sure black/creme is magnificent. There aren't many black metallic 328's around (someone told me there were 45 ordered in that paint code), so I wouldn't recommend you wait for that color to come available. When I saw it it knocked me out - nice depth, and more forgiving than black.

Pure minority opinion section here: It's all a matter of taste, but I think the 328 looks best in black hues because it blends with the top, spoilers and valances. Your eye hits the fender curve and air intakes and those taillights, with are the signatures of the design. Red and lighter colors don't do that as well for me.

And - everyone on the planet knows a 308/328 is a Ferrari - it's not like you need a red car to make the point.

That said, black is probably the second most common 328 color behind red. So, I would say keep looking and you will turn one up. Black/tan, black/crema are both great. Mine has 22K miles. You should be able to get into a car like that for the low $50K range fully and properly serviced and with everything in perfect working order.

**DGS** · #9 02-27-2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewStoddard

I would much rather have the lower miles and be ok with an inflated price.

Okay, this is the part I don't get.

I've owned Italian cars for more than three decades, and the one thing I've learned is that they rot faster parked in the garage than when they're run. Every time I leave an Alfa for a year or two without driving it, it develops more problems than in all the years Alfas were my daily drivers.

An 88.5 is 17 years old. With 40K miles, that works out to about 2350 miles a year. With 20K miles, that would be less than 1200 miles a year. That's a lot of sitting.

The service schedule is 15K miles or three years, whichever comes first. To my thinking, that makes 5K per year "optimal" wear. At 17 years, that adds up to 85K miles.

So either way, you're potentially looking at a significant service to get a 17 year old 328 back to "driver" reliability. If the car's been "run hard and put away wet", then the service will take some catch-up. But if it's been sitting, one "recent service" just isn't going to deal with all the issues.

I'd think that total miles would be insignificant, compared to recent service and miles history.

Sure, it's important to have new timing belts after a long barn stint before you drive it, but it'll take some miles for the dried hydraulic seals and corroded shock struts to make themselves felt.

And if somebody changed the oil, they'll call it a "recent service".

Is this bias for low miles an American thing? Do Europeans have this same emphasis on "low miles"?

I remember the '60s Mopars: At 80K miles, they pretty much disintegrated. Japanese cars are often built with non-replaceable moving parts, to save money.

But on a car that can be repaired, realigned, and retuned, most Italian cars, properly maintained, will last until the frames rust away. (Or - more often - until you break something you don't want to repair. When I fragged the transbox on my Alfetta GT, it was an excuse to upgrade to a GTV-6. But the Alfetta chassis at that point was still in far better shape than my Celica AllTrac was at 90K miles.)

My 328 had 40K on the clock when I bought it. I put a major service into the engine bay, and had a major four wheel alignment since then. And, at 60K miles, it handles better than when I bought it.

The Marelli computer is getting a bit marginal, but that's years, not miles. The older electronics are going to be an issue on any car this age, regardless of mileage.

BT · #10 02-27-2006, 08:34 AM

Drew, you should contact Chefrobear. He has a nice Black metallic 328 that had the major service done at Tim Stanford's less than a year ago. He was looking to sell it about two months ago. He might still have it. I think he was looking to get around $40-45k for it if I remember right? Picture below.

BT

parkerfe · #11 02-27-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewStoddard

I've recently found a 328 at Ferrari of Atlanta that I'm considering.

(88.5 40k miles, recent service $54k)

My question is, why are the dealer prices so high and do they get away with it?

I've noticed the same things from other dealers such as Ferrari of Denver...

I'm under the impression this price is inflated just as the '89 they have for $67k is.

Thats more than I paid in 1990 for a 1986 328GTS at FAF with 11k miles!

**DrewStoddard** · #12 02-27-2006, 10:09 AM

DGS,

My main issues with the miles is how it relates to price. The benefit I see to lower mile cars is the resale value.

I'm have no issue with stepping into a car with 40k miles, as long as it has a proper service history...and is priced accordingly

**Bullfighter** · #13 02-27-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BT348PBG

Drew, you should contact Chefrobear. He has a nice Black metallic 328 that had the major service done at Tim Stanford's less than a year ago. He was looking to sell it about two months ago. He might still have it. I think he was looking to get around $40-45k for it if I remember right? Picture below.

BT

That is nice - and looks it's local, which is a bonus.

What's with the black spot under the front valence? Is the car parked over a dark spot on the pavement or is the panel underneath loose?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGS

Okay, this is the part I don't get.

I've owned Italian cars for more than three decades, and the one thing I've learned is that they rot faster parked in the garage than when they're run. Every time I leave an Alfa for a year or two without driving it, it develops more problems than in all the years Alfas were my daily drivers.

An 88.5 is 17 years old. With 40K miles, that works out to about 2350 miles a year. With 20K miles, that would be less than 1200 miles a year. That's a lot of sitting.

The service schedule is 15K miles or three years, whichever comes first. To my thinking, that makes 5K per year "optimal" wear. At 17 years, that adds up to 85K miles.

So either way, you're potentially looking at a significant service to get a 17 year old 328 back to "driver" reliability. If the car's been "run hard and put away wet", then the service will take some catch-up. But if it's been sitting, one "recent service" just isn't going to deal with all the issues.

I'd think that total miles would be insignificant, compared to recent service and miles history.

Sure, it's important to have new timing belts after a long barn stint before you drive it, but it'll take some miles for the dried hydraulic seals and corroded shock struts to make themselves felt.

And if somebody changed the oil, they'll call it a "recent service".

Is this bias for low miles an American thing? Do Europeans have this same emphasis on "low miles"? ...

My 328 had 40K on the clock when I bought it. I put a major service into the engine bay, and had a major four wheel alignment since then. And, at 60K miles, it handles better than when I bought it.

The Marelli computer is getting a bit marginal, but that's years, not miles. The older electronics are going to be an issue on any car this age, regardless of mileage.

You can almost bet that any 20K-mile 328 almost certainly hasn't had 1200 miles put on it each year. It may have sat for a decade and then been put in order and driven regularly the last 8-9 years. Or -- worst case -- someone drove it 10K miles a year for two years then put it in mothballs.

Also, while a properly cared for 3.2 V8 can go well over 100K miles, the perception is that a Ferrari over 50K miles is about halfway toward needing an five-figure engine rebuild due to wear. In that case, the huge investment in a rebuild is hard to justify given the value of the car.

Regularly driven cars wear out in different ways than parked cars, but they wear out in the expected ways. Price is based on the perceived remaining life of the car, and the market is thin at 50K miles and up. Drew should use that to negotiate. Yes, a 40K-mile car in good order could be great. But it's worth less than a 20K-mile car in good order.

**hardtop** · #14 02-27-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGS

Okay, this is the part I don't get.

I've owned Italian cars for more than three decades, and the one thing I've learned is that they rot faster parked in the garage than when they're run. Every time I leave an Alfa for a year or two without driving it, it develops more problems than in all the years Alfas were my daily drivers.

An 88.5 is 17 years old. With 40K miles, that works out to about 2350 miles a year. With 20K miles, that would be less than 1200 miles a year. That's a lot of sitting.

The service schedule is 15K miles or three years, whichever comes first. To my thinking, that makes 5K per year "optimal" wear. At 17 years, that adds up to 85K miles.

So either way, you're potentially looking at a significant service to get a 17 year old 328 back to "driver" reliability. If the car's been "run hard and put away wet", then the service will take some catch-up. But if it's been sitting, one "recent service" just isn't going to deal with all the issues.

I'd think that total miles would be insignificant, compared to recent service and miles history.

Sure, it's important to have new timing belts after a long barn stint before you drive it, but it'll take some miles for the dried hydraulic seals and corroded shock struts to make themselves felt.

And if somebody changed the oil, they'll call it a "recent service".

Is this bias for low miles an American thing? Do Europeans have this same emphasis on "low miles"?

I remember the '60s Mopars: At 80K miles, they pretty much disintegrated. Japanese cars are often built with non-replaceable moving parts, to save money.

But on a car that can be repaired, realigned, and retuned, most Italian cars, properly maintained, will last until the frames rust away. (Or - more often - until you break something you don't want to repair. When I fragged the transbox on my Alfetta GT, it was an excuse to upgrade to a GTV-6. But the Alfetta chassis at that point was still in far better shape than my Celica AllTrac was at 90K miles.)

My 328 had 40K on the clock when I bought it. I put a major service into the engine bay, and had a major four wheel alignment since then. And, at 60K miles, it handles better than when I bought it.

The Marelli computer is getting a bit marginal, but that's years, not miles. The older electronics are going to be an issue on any car this age, regardless of mileage.

I respect your opinion, but anecdotal evidence indicates that (at least on cars less than 20 years old) the garage queen syndrome is not as bad as you think. Case in point: I bought my current 89 328 4 years ago with 7K on it and only 1K had been put on it in the previous 5 years. It recently turned 20K and I have had no problems of any sort, just routine service. Recently a local friend bought another 89 with 6K on it. It needed service, but so far has been no problems. Another friend recently bought an 88.5 with about 20K on it, but it had only been driven about 1K in the last 10 years. It got a full service with no extras and has now been driven 1K+ problem free. About 4 years ago another Fchatter bought an 89 GTB with about 200 miles on it. It had been stored in Europe. He recently sold it to another friend of mine now with 6K on it. It has had no problems for either owner. The car is perfect (as you would expect). The worst Ferrari I had bought was an 85 308 with 32K on it, but very little in the previous 10 years. It needed a major service and much more that I had not anticipated. I have heard of other garage queen 308's requiring 15-20K to get them up to speed, but for some reason, 328's don't seem to suffer nearly as much from sitting. I've had 3 308's and 2 328's, the 308's were substantially needier in general. I would agree with you, however, that a well cared for 40K 328 is still a great car with plenty of life remaining.

Dave

F328 BobD · #15 02-27-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrewStoddard

My question is, why are the dealer prices so high and do they get away with it?

I'm under the impression this price is inflated just as the '89 they have for $67k is.

Don't confuse asking with selling. I bought an '89 from a dealer and negotiated 12% off the asking price... to the point it was in the ballpark. Not a ton but everything is negotiable (except 430s

)

chefrobear · #16 02-27-2006, 11:58 AM

Bill;
Drew went as far as a PPI on my car and passed on a deal. Originally I was selling it because of the extensive traveling I am doing this year and next (currently I am in the U.S.V.I.).
I have decided to keep it until the maranello comes on the horizon (3-4 years).
I am calling Tim today to arrange new tires and regular oil service. I also talked to Luc and he will paint the car this summer while I am in Italy. Besides, the helicopter is a blast when I get a ride

.
I will be home at the end of March for a couple of months. How about another cookout at your place! That was fun! What do ya say?

gil308 · #17 02-27-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefrobear

Bill;
Drew went as far as a PPI on my car and passed on a deal. Originally I was selling it because of the extensive traveling I am doing this year and next (currently I am in the U.S.V.I.).
I have decided to keep it until the maranello comes on the horizon (3-4 years).
I am calling Tim today to arrange new tires and regular oil service. I also talked to Luc and he will paint the car this summer while I am in Italy. Besides, the helicopter is a blast when I get a ride

.
I will be home at the end of March for a couple of months. How about another cookout at your place! That was fun! What do ya say?

So, when's the BBQ? Glad to hear you're keeping the 328. By the way, who's beautiful 308 is that (left quarterpanel) is Bill's pic of your car? I'll bet the rest of the car is just fantastic!

chefrobear · #18 02-27-2006, 09:14 PM

Gil hope your car is still in fantastic shape! I'm sure it is. BTW how's fatherhood treating you?

**dcate** · #19 02-27-2006, 10:33 PM

also...328 prices have "firmed up" in the last 12 mos. 10k mi cars were to be had in the mid 40's 12 mos. ago, but I don't see them there now. At least that's what I've seen just looking to buy. mid 40k ish $ now gets you "mid to upper 20k ish miles... and it seems you have to look a bit at that...