Never hear airlines making gear ups...

[donv]

Habits like that seem like a pain when you're first trying to adopt them. As time goes by, it gets easier and easier until you no longer even notice that you're doing it.

Of course, I (and Capt. Gann, for that matter) had the advantage of sitting next to a hard headed Captain for around a thousand hours, so failing to follow procedures always resulted in, at best, a verbal chewing out. At worst, I could have been fired, but I learned from the beginning not to make the same mistake more than once, so that wasn't an issue.

Eventually, I became that hard headed Captain, and was probably cursed by many a first officer!

Originally Posted by Bob Parks

I flew many times with Ernest Gann, writer and old airline pilot, and learned a bit about cockpit protocol in his Cessna 310. You didn't speak until spoken to when you were approaching or leaving an airport area...probably ten mile radius. His landing check list was on the cover of the knee board and main items posted on the windshield side frame. Going through the list he touched each item on the list and then the associated item on the airplane and then checked the numbers or performed the proper function.. On final there was a last sweep of items. Conversation occurred after shut down. Flying with my son is the same disciplinary exercise.
Switches

[RWatters]

This isn't a gear-up, but how about landing on a taxiway instead of the runway?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21/geo...ion/index.html

[James_Woods]

Let me guess, Tazandian - the pilot flew all the way to the destination with the gear still down, cursing how slow it was and the horrible headwinds,

And THEN put the gear up and landed...

There really is a story like this in Adolph Galland's book "The First and the Last" about German LWF pilots. Except that somebody waved him off back at the base.

[zygomatic]

A favorite story from Sam Hynes' very good 'Flights of Passage' involves a TBM driver who, while taxiing down the flightline, accidentally retracted his gear, dropping the airplane on its belly.

Oops.


The comments above about flight deck discipline - lists, double-checks, and efficient, clear communication - brought to mind the reasons they bring pilots in to talk to surgeons and OR staff.

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by James_Woods

Let me guess, Tazandian - the pilot flew all the way to the destination with the gear still down, cursing how slow it was and the horrible headwinds,

And THEN put the gear up and landed...

There really is a story like this in Adolph Galland's book "The First and the Last" about German LWF pilots. Except that somebody waved him off back at the base.

This story was told to me when I worked at Sarasota airport after the war. A guy bought a brand new Republic Seabee and after practicing water landings he came in for a landing at Sarasota and made a nice "water landing" wheels up on the runway. After getting the airplane fixed he shot a bunch of landings at the the airport and then went to practice some more water landings in Sarasota Bay...shall I continue?
Switches

[James_Woods]

There is a saying that there are only 2 kinds of pilots: The ones that have done it, and the ones that are going to someday. Maybe I am almost in between.

Back in the early 1970s I belonged to a "Beechcraft Club". This was a members-only flying club sponsored by the factory where you could rent Beech planes at a reduced rate all the way from the little trainer up to the Baron twins.

My big goal was to qualify for the V-tail Bonanza. Part of the requirement was X number of hours in the Sierra - a sort of retractable gear trainer; it could hardly keep up with a Cessna 182 even with the gear up.

Anyway, I took the Sierra for a business trip from Oklahoma City down to Lawton, Oklahoma. When I was coming back in the late afternoon, an Ice & Snow storm front had come through OKC. So, I am sitting there listening to the Wiley Post tower asking everybody what the braking effects were like, and each pilot got to adding to the drama by degree. I get there kind of nervous about making the landing. The local Aero Commander factory pilots were amoung the worst, reporting "negligable braking response" and other horrors...

So, I ask for a flyover down the runway to see what it looked like - which they approved. So, I go flaps & gear, fly low down the runway to look it over (but not touching down), clean it up and go around the pattern. (the reader can probably now guess what Mr. Woods did NOT do before turning final on the real landing approach.

So, I am still so freaked about the ice that I completely ignore the gear horn, start to flare, and notice that I am getting awfully low just as the tower screams out "GEAR GEAR GEAR".
I do not know to this day how close the prop came to concrete, but it somehow picked itself up and made a go-around.

After this, the actual landing was no big deal...the runway was long enough that this plane doesn't really need any braking if you touch down at a proper speed and reasonably close to the near end. I confessed to the club instructor (who was also my Private ticket instructor in C152s) and he sentenced me to a full 2 hours of dual ice landings the next day, including deliberately getting it into little skids and pulling it out with rudder and power.

After this, he gave me my V35B Bonanza wings - still my favorite plane ever to fly except for aerobatics types.

[donv]

If you really want to understand why airline pilots don't gear up, read this website:

http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/

I think he's one of the best writers about flying the line since Gann.

[BeachBum]

On commercial aircraft you have multiple ways of lowering the gear. Triple redundent hydrolics. If you lose all hydrolics you can manually pump them down and if that fails you can do a gravity drop. Again, Ive been out of the business for years so im not up on the latest aircraft but thats the way Boeing did it a few years ago.

[beast]

Here is a 767 crew that almost landed wheels up.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/...014090,00.html

[ND Flack]

Originally Posted by beast

Here is a 767 crew that almost landed wheels up.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/...014090,00.html

Interesting stat from that story:

"Landing gear problems or gear-up situations were involved in 15 per cent of airline hull-loss accidents last year, according to an analysis by the International Air Transport Association."

[James_Woods]

Originally Posted by ND Flack

Interesting stat from that story:

"Landing gear problems or gear-up situations were involved in 15 per cent of airline hull-loss accidents last year, according to an analysis by the International Air Transport Association."

But that is a mighty big "OR".

[saleenfan]

I had a student forget once. Our policy is to put the gear in at midfield downwind and then continue the pattern, Well low and behold he had traffic to find so he forgot about the gear. Fast forward to final, the flaps get added the power is reduced and the horns going off and i can see on the students face that hes having a hard time concentrating with the horn going off but still no action being taken, He even does his final check of "gear down, flaps full, cleared to land". I let him go just a little bit further (down to about 150 ft agl) and then i ask him the textbook question "forgetting somthing?". He all of a sudden got the classic "o s^&t" look on his face and promptly went around, Im not going to lie it made me extremely nervous to think that he could have done that and would have landed gear up had I not been there. The biggest thing that pisses me off with students is when they simply do the lip service for call outs such as three green when only two of the lights are lit up yet so needless to say I had a talk with the student after that.