458 Italia no more Manual

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by Scuderia980

then forget about this car...there are plenty of other good cars out there with a traditional manual...

+1 but not faster than this car.

[ztunelover]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

+1 but not faster than this car.

the balboni lp550 could be. I'm just saying.

The CGT is manual, and I am certain it is faster.

As is any of those outrageous zondas.

Lastly there is still the Mclaren F1?

Yes the last three are significantly more expensive, but I am just saying, but I am serious about that balboni. That bull is definitely something not to be ignored.

Completely eliminating it I still think is dumb. Hell for the few that really want one, make it an extra cost option even. Those that don't want flappies and a car with stick I am sure are willing to pay a bit more. I know I am.

[ztunelover]

Originally Posted by tazandjan

Krish- No, ABS significantly decreases stopping distances on dry surfaces because it can maintain that point just below lock-up by cycling the brakes at rates unachievable by humans. Look in some old issues of R&T, MT, or C&D and compare stopping distances on the pre-ABS Vipers vs the ABS Vipers. The stopping distance decreased significantly when ABS was introduced in 2001.

There are some surfaces, such as deep sand and gravel, where ABS is not very efficient, but on snowy highways, ABS typically offers an advantage.

Keep saving your money and you will soon have a Ferrari. You can also do what I did to buy my first one. Buy a car that will not depreciate much. Pay for it and trade for something better without much depreciation. Repeat until a Ferrari is affordable. Worked for me. Vette-911S-Dino 246 GT-Daytona. Vette-Porsche-308/328/348/355/360 should work now. Make sure you have a garage by the time you get to the Ferrari. If you want a Ferrari earlier, consider a Dino 308 GT4 or Mondial.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Ah yes so I was partially right, I was told only about gravel, and assumed it meant all surface situations. My mistake. How about this for a suggestion? abs system that you can turn off. When you reach open lapping sessions at the track, you turn it off to develop braking techniques if you will, and turn it back on when going back on the road? I think its a good idea. I mean it's such a sweet sensation when you do something absolutely right, and you needed no computer assist for it. I like to experience that. It is a lovely sensation.

My thoughts are maintain my current car. Unfortunately being my first car I got hopelessly emotionally attached to it, and now I can't let it go. So long for any return from this car. I am thinking a vetski in a couple of years, don't know which porsche I want, I hate their vw beetle looks, but I definitely respect their quality, heritage, and performance. I am not sure which one to get maybe a basic carrera. And eventually a 348. <-- That is the car that I want to climb to internationally respected tuner level along with the r34 skyline gt-r as the co flagship.

[mhh]

Originally Posted by ztunelover

the balboni lp550 could be. I'm just saying.

I understand your preference for a stick shift, but there's no way a Balboni is quicker anywhere than a 458. And I say that as a Lambo owner (and fan).

[Quadcammer]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

+1 but not faster than this car.

quite frankly, the ZR1 is probably faster

[ztunelover]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

quite frankly, the ZR1 is probably faster

Oh how do I keep forgetting the zr1?

And to mhh I guess we gotta wait and find out. I am certain there will be a comparo between.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by ztunelover

Oh how do I keep forgetting the zr1?

And to mhh I guess we gotta wait and find out. I am certain there will be a comparo between.

MotorTrend compared the ZR1 to the 599 and the ZR1 practically won every category.

[targanero]

Sadly new Ferrari and Lambo buyers don't like to row gears anymore. And what's worse is that it's not about the performance...

[leead1]

Originally Posted by jeff

MotorTrend compared the ZR1 to the 599 and the ZR1 practically won every category.

I own a ZR1 and a F430. I have driven a 599 and it is very fast. I think the ZR1 is quicker.

I saw a road test done by Car & Driver comparing the ZR1 and the Lambo LP640. They called it a draw. The LP640 has 4 wheel drive so it is quicker from a dead start. The ZR1 won the 1/4 mile. If you do a rolling start the ZR1 won. In my view the lambo won but that is how they judged it. The ZR! is a very quick car, very quick and it is done right.

What surprised me about the ZR1 is how refined the car is and how comfortable and luxurious it feels. It does not handle anywhere near as well as the Ferraris. But it is good. The only car I like better than Ferrari on handling is the Lotus Elise. The Elise suffers in comfort, power and refinement.

Lee

[Scuderia980]

Originally Posted by targanero

Sadly new Ferrari and Lambo buyers don't like to row gears anymore. And what's worse is that it's not about the performance...

yes, this is a touchy subject...many want an 'accessible' driving experience, many want the 'total involvement' that comes from a traditional manual. it seems that the 458 has been designed with the twin clutch in mind...thus no 'gated manual'...it's a shame for those who do really like to shift on their own...i guess Ferrari decided that the 'overall package' with the twin clutch, with no 'manual' option, was a better trade-off in terms of performance and production costs. as with any trade-off, someone always get left out in the cold...

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by leead1

I own a ZR1 and a F430. I have driven a 599 and it is very fast. I think the ZR1 is quicker.

I saw a road test done by Car & Driver comparing the ZR1 and the Lambo LP640. They called it a draw. The LP640 has 4 wheel drive so it is quicker from a dead start. The ZR1 won the 1/4 mile. If you do a rolling start the ZR1 won. In my view the lambo won but that is how they judged it. The ZR! is a very quick car, very quick and it is done right.

What surprised me about the ZR1 is how refined the car is and how comfortable and luxurious it feels. It does not handle anywhere near as well as the Ferraris. But it is good. The only car I like better than Ferrari on handling is the Lotus Elise. The Elise suffers in comfort, power and refinement.

Lee

Lee, I love the ZR-1 as well and think it is a great car. But before we start jumping on what is the fastest car, lets see the proper road test on the 458 first. Some of Car Rags reported 0-60 in 3.3 to 3.4 for a Panamera Turbo, and 3.5 for a California. A lot has to do with these new Twin Clutch Transmissions and Launch Control. Lets wait and see, as Ferrari has mentioned, they have done a lot of chassis work besides straight line times.

[Steve R]

Originally Posted by Scuderia980

no 'gated manual'...it's a shame for those who do really like to shift on their own...i guess Ferrari decided that the 'overall package' with the twin clutch, with no 'manual' option, was a better trade-off in terms of performance and production costs. as with any trade-off, someone always get left out in the cold...

And that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

I dunno, the straight-across design in the front grill. The Transformers headlights running way up, the funky rear-end....yet another new design that we'll need to learn to love. About the only thing we unequivocably embrace is the improved performance, can't argue with faster & better-handling.

Funny thing. We all used to say "If America built a car that performed as well as the German & Italian cars...we'd buy it". Along comes the ZR1 and yet with all its performance is still just doesn't have that certain something. I think it just makes the point that there's more to a car then how many G's it can pull or how quickly it can go from 0-60mph.

As the 355 did to the 348, as the 430 did to the 360, I wonder where they'll go from the 458....sure is great living in these times!

[JuanRS]

Are the V12s available in manual?

Is the 612 available in manual?
Is the 599 available in manual?

Thanks.

[CM1]

Originally Posted by JuanRS

Are the V12s available in manual?

Is the 612 available in manual?
Is the 599 available in manual?

Thanks.

Yes and Yes.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by CM1

Yes and Yes.

Chad, I don't think Ferrari is making anymore 612's with the manual Gearbox from what I have read, they have not made one California in Manual form, the only car they are offering is the 599 custom built.

[2GT]

Whatever the reason why people claim to prefer F1/dual-clutch transmissions, I think that a lot of it boils down to bragging rights. If a paddle-shifted car, whether the earlier-type F1 transmission or the dual-clutch version, is faster off the line because of gearchange times (in the hands of professional test drivers), that seems to reset the bar for all other cars. As the traditional manual transmission can't match those times, it is disparaged as old technology, behind the times, etc. Even though very few owners of F1-equipped cars will be able to get anywhere near the times of a professional test driver, I think that it becomes a matter of pride to own the newest technology. I won't go so far as to call it a perceived threat to one's masculinity to prefer a manual on a current car. Maybe it would be kinder to call it a generational preference. Those who grew up with Play Station and Gameboys don't have much investment in the "driver involvement" prized by manual trans. lovers. It's not a criticism, just an opinion. As I said in an earlier post, having driven five F1 Ferraris, I can certainly see their appeal. I just don't long to own one. Fred

[Lesia44]

Originally Posted by 2GT

Whatever the reason why people claim to prefer F1/dual-clutch transmissions, I think that a lot of it boils down to bragging rights. If a paddle-shifted car, whether the earlier-type F1 transmission or the dual-clutch version, is faster off the line because of gearchange times (in the hands of professional test drivers), that seems to reset the bar for all other cars. As the traditional manual transmission can't match those times, it is disparaged as old technology, behind the times, etc. Even though very few owners of F1-equipped cars will be able to get anywhere near the times of a professional test driver, I think that it becomes a matter of pride to own the newest technology. I won't go so far as to call it a perceived threat to one's masculinity to prefer a manual on a current car. Maybe it would be kinder to call it a generational preference. Those who grew up with Play Station and Gameboys don't have much investment in the "driver involvement" prized by manual trans. lovers. It's not a criticism, just an opinion. As I said in an earlier post, having driven five F1 Ferraris, I can certainly see their appeal. I just don't long to own one. Fred

Complete crap from start to finish.

[noekult]

The words of Ferrari CEO, Amedo Felisa, regarding 458:

Q: Is this the end of manual gearboxes in Ferrari?
A: "Yes, it is. The 458 will not be available as a manual, nor will future Ferraris as customers no longer request one."


FINITO!

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by noekult

The words of Ferrari CEO, Amedo Felisa, regarding 458:

Q: Is this the end of manual gearboxes in Ferrari?
A: "Yes, it is. The 458 will not be available as a manual, nor will future Ferraris as customers no longer request one."


FINITO!

I read that as well in the new EVO yesterday. I went for a ride in a friends California, and frankly I was astonished how good the new DSG transmission was in that car.

[noekult]

^ I don't wanna know how good it is, because I don't wanna love the California The review Chris Harris did for Evo, included some comments about the DSG in the 458: He said he was afraid the dual clutch systems would feel too clinical, but the gearbox didn't feel like it but instead warm and organic.

Ferrari is just on a different level now, compared to anyone else... Kidney for sale.