FORZA MAG: MS MOST SUCCESSFUL

[PhilNotHill]

Just got my forza Magazine today (May, 2007). Good article by Andrew Frankle: From Bricks to Billions.

MS Records:

Most WDCs
MS 7 FANGIO 5

MOST CONSECUTIVE WDCS:
MS 5 SENNA 4

MOST POLES:
MS 68 SENNA 65

MOST FRONT ROW STARTS:
MS 108 SENNA 87

MOST PODIUM FINISHES:
MS 154 PROST 106

MOST CONSECUTIVE PODIUM FINISHES:
MS 19 ALONSO 15

MOST POINTS:
MS 1,369 PROST 798.5

MOST FASTEST LAPS:
MS 76 PROST 41

MOST FASTEST LAPS IN ONE SEASON:
MS 10 KIMI 10*

MOST WINS IN A SEASON:
MS 13,11,9 MANSELL 9

MOST RACES FINISHED IN THE POINTS:
MS 190 PROST 128

About the only records Schumi doesn't have are:
Most race starts= Patrese 256 MS 250
Most pole positions in a single season= Mansell 14 MS 11.

Former three time WDC Niki Lauda calls Michael Schumacher, "The greatest driver of all time."

Frankle: "In a sport then full of sons of former champions making their way thanks to their name and connections (JV and D Hill) and youngsters buying in with family wealth (Berger and Senna), Schumacher climbed to the top with nothing but talent."

Bravo Schumi.

[RP]

Thanks for the info. Some people still can't admit that MS is the best to date.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by tifosiron

Thanks for the info. Some people still can't admit that MS is the best to date.

No he had the longest career to date with the most reliable car. For the number of races that he was in Fangio was more successful, and both Clark and Senna were faster. Don't equate the best with the most successful. 249 GP's vs 54 for Fangio, 60 odd for Clark, and 164 for Senna.

[red355]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

No he had the longest career to date with the most reliable car. For the number of races that he was in Fangio was more successful, and both Clark and Senna were faster. Don't equate the best with the most successful. 249 GP's vs 54 for Fangio, 60 odd for Clark, and 164 for Senna.

How can you even compare Schumacher to Clark, they are from totally different eras.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by red355

How can you even compare Schumacher to Clark, they are from totally different eras.

Exactly, don't compare them, each Driver was the best for there ERA. Statistics, don't make MS th best, because he raced longer in a different era. He was the best of his time, but not the best of all time.

One last thing, for you stat freaks, if a Z06 Corvette is quicker to 60 than a Ferrari, does it make it a better car?

[red355]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Exactly, don't compare them, each Driver was the best for there ERA. Statistics, don't make MS th best, because he raced longer in a different era. He was the best of his time, but not the best of all time.

But you directly compared them stating that Clark was faster.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by red355

But you directly compared them stating that Clark was faster.

Well if you want to compare stats like Ron is doing, Clark had 33 Poles from 60 odd Races and Senna had 65 from 164 Races. MS has 68 from 249 Races. JMFangio has a 50% Win Rate, MS doesn't. So who cares about STATS? MS was a the best driver of his generation period. If you want to read a good article go back to R&T Feb issue about why MS had a very unique career and that will never occur again.

[Remy Zero]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Well if you want to compare stats like Ron is doing, Clark had 33 Poles from 60 odd Races and Senna had 65 from 164 Races. MS has 68 from 249 Races. JMFangio has a 50% Win Rate, MS doesn't. So who cares about STATS? MS was a the best driver of his generation period. If you want to read a good article go back to R&T Feb issue about why MS had a very unique career and that will never occur again.

+1 good post.

[Senna1994]

Thank you Brian, I maybe in Malaysia in June, lets hook up and talk some F1 and Ferrari's. I will buy you a glass of Cab, and tell you why Moss really was the best of the lot.

[Remy Zero]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Thank you Brian, I maybe in Malaysia in June, lets hook up and talk some F1 and Ferrari's. I will buy you a glass of Cab, and tell you why Moss really was the best of the lot.

No problem, Tony. just PM me when you'll be here, and i'll make it a point to meet u up. haha...thanx for the offer

[maxorido]

Originally Posted by tifosiron

Thanks for the info. Some people still can't admit that MS is the best to date.

Let's see here, Michael had 250 grand prix starts compared to Ayrton who only had 161. Michael had many more starts then Ayrton, yet he only managed to score 3 more pole positons than him. Statistics are not absolute in terms of skill. The only thing Michael is clearly the greatest at, are the politics behind the scenes and organizing a team.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by maxorido

Let's see here, Michael had 250 grand prix starts compared to Ayrton who only had 161. Michael had many more starts then Ayrton, yet he only managed to score 3 more pole positons than him. Statistics are not absolute in terms of skill. The only thing Michael is clearly the greatest at, are the politics behind the scenes and organizing a team.

He did a terrific job for Ferrari and should be commended for his work. He is truly one of the greats, but you can't just say that he was the best due to stats. He was in a once in a lifetime position, why? Very Simple, the greatest drivers of that earlier era retired (Prost), Died (Senna), and got old (Mansell). He came to a team with incredible resources and did a Outstanding Job of building a team around himself. He picked his teammates, he was in a period of time when cars were reliable, and most importantly he had a tire war when one tire company supported his team to the full extent. When the tire company blew it (2005), it showed up on the "STATS". Saying all that he was in my opinion one of the all time greats and we should never forget that. But he also had weakness that the STATS don't show as well. We will miss him and time will show him to be one of the greatest drivers of any generation, but I can't understand (Although Ron I truly respect you) how you can say just by the numbers that he is better than Fangio, Clark, Senna.

[1_can_dream]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

He did a terrific job for Ferrari and should be commended for his work. He is truly one of the greats, but you can't just say that he was the best due to stats. He was in a once in a lifetime position, why? Very Simple, the greatest drivers of that earlier era retired (Prost), Died (Senna), and got old (Mansell). He came to a team with incredible resources and did a Outstanding Job of building a team around himself. He picked his teammates, he was in a period of time when cars were reliable, and most importantly he had a tire war when one tire company supported his team to the full extent. When the tire company blew it (2005), it showed up on the "STATS". Saying all that he was in my opinion one of the all time greats and we should never forget that. But he also had weakness that the STATS don't show as well. We will miss him and time will show him to be one of the greatest drivers of any generation, but I can't understand (Although Ron I truly respect you) how you can say just by the numbers that he is better than Fangio, Clark, Senna.

While I am an MS fan, I also completely agree with your statement in this post and the others in the thread. You can't compare the drivers because they weren't all racing at the same time, and for the same amount of time. Each driver has their strong points and accomplishments that outshine the others, but to label one as the best of all time is very hard and IMO impossible to do.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by 1_can_dream

While I am an MS fan, I also completely agree with your statement in this post and the others in the thread. You can't compare the drivers because they weren't all racing at the same time, and for the same amount of time. Each driver has their strong points and accomplishments that outshine the others, but to label one as the best of all time is very hard and IMO impossible to do.

Thank you Kyle, I am not taking anything away from MS. His strength of character and his work ethic in F1 IMHO are second to none. But to just go by numbers is silly. He is in the Pantheon of the greats.

[1_can_dream]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Thank you Kyle, I am not taking anything away from MS. His strength of character and his work ethic in F1 IMHO are second to none. But to just go by numbers is silly. He is in the Pantheon of the greats.

Agreed comparing by numbers is a bit silly, I only wish I was a fan of F1 when Senna was racing so I'd have more than just numbers/video clips of races to compare them with. Apparently I wasn't a big F1 fan when I was 6.

[Remy Zero]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

Thank you Kyle, I am not taking anything away from MS. His strength of character and his work ethic in F1 IMHO are second to none. But to just go by numbers is silly. He is in the Pantheon of the greats.

i agree Tony. If we can all recall, Michael himself said many many times in the past that stats means/meant nothing to him. he knows, deep down, he's the best driver of his own generation. but the greatest of all time? i doubt very much he thinks himself as that.

i think, Michael should be always remember as the person who turned Ferrari's fortune around. he worked hard, motivated the team, built the team around him, and gave them glory. many people have failed to do what MS did, notably Prost himself.

so i think, Michael deserves some credit in that section, not being a 7 time champ or most poles, etc. i really doubt if we can see another MS in our lifetime. however, it'll be really interesting to see what FA can do at Mclaren.

Mclaren, currently, like Ferrari pre-MS, were race winners, but not title winners. Mac's last title was 1998, and WDC in 1999. so, i'm really curious to see if FA can do what MS did.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by 1_can_dream

Agreed comparing by numbers is a bit silly, I only wish I was a fan of F1 when Senna was racing so I'd have more than just numbers/video clips of races to compare them with. Apparently I wasn't a big F1 fan when I was 6.

No problem, if you ever want some Videos, just PM me. Watch the first Lap of Donnington 93 or Qualifying in Monaco in 88, 89, and 90. Or watch MS in 96 in Spain, or Hungary 88.

[Remy Zero]

Originally Posted by Senna1994

No problem, if you ever want some Videos, just PM me. Watch the first Lap of Donnington 93 or Qualifying in Monaco in 88, 89, and 90. Or watch MS in 96 in Spain, or Hungary 88.

Tony, is it ok to post the link of Monaco 88 ( senna's clips ) and MS's Spain and hungary? thanx in advance.

[Senna1994]

Originally Posted by Remy Zero

Tony, is it ok to post the link of Monaco 88 ( senna's clips ) and MS's Spain and hungary? thanx in advance.

You Tube is your Friend Brian...

[miketuason]

MS might be the record holder but remember records are made to be broken.