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355 Flywheel Issue

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by stason, Apr 10, 2006.

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  1. stason

    stason Rookie

    Mar 8, 2006
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    #1 stason, Apr 10, 2006
    I’m in the middle of rebuilding the flywheel on my 1999 355 F1. I’m having a bit of trouble taking the flywheel apart. The flywheel’s grease had broken loose so badly that is got onto the clutch disk (I’ve sent that off to clutchmasters for a Kevlar rebuild). There are also huge amounts of grease in the bell housing. I’d be surprised if any is left inside the flywheel. On removing the flywheel bearing seat (the large nut with 4 notches in it that holds the flywheel to the bell housing) I also ran into some trouble. It was so securely fastened I broke a wrench trying to unscrew it. I finally had success after welding together a jig that holds the inner flywheel piece (using the pressure plate’s allen keys) and then using a 12 foot pipe to torque a new wrench! I thought it was never coming off – but the jig & 12’ pipe combo got it loose. On inspection it looks like someone put lock-tight in there! Unless the red residue is normal I think a mechanic made a mistake (even though its only been to the dealer and one other professional Ferrari shop – Black Horse, LA). What’s your take on this?

    Anyway, my main problem now is the disassembly of the flywheel. It is out of the bell housing but will not come apart. I’ve removed the 10mm bolts that hold the assembly together (not the torques that hold the plate to the damper – I know not to remove those). I’ve tried a few different techniques; but no success. Now that the bolts are removed the inner piece can spin in relation to the outer piece (is this normal?) Should the flywheel just fall open after these bolts are removed or is there a prying technique I need to implement? I just hope it isn’t all sealed with lock-tight! Any suggestions would be great. Thank you for your help.
     
  2. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

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    #2 jh355, Apr 10, 2006
    Don’t try and pry it any more or you will most likely bust the snap-ring groove in the center spline casting.

    PM me if you need the inside information on a R&R and help with the Kevlar issues.

    JH
     
  3. stason

    stason Rookie

    Mar 8, 2006
    9
    #3 stason, Apr 10, 2006
    How shall I disassemble it without prying? In a normal situation should it fall out / open when those bolts are removed?
     
  4. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 ernie, Apr 10, 2006
    Try holding it on it's side and then hit the edge with the mallet to see if it will help get it to come appart.
     
  5. stason

    stason Rookie

    Mar 8, 2006
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    #5 stason, Apr 10, 2006
    I've tried holding the inner part of the flywheel with my jig and tapping the outter piece (the part that the starter cog connects to) with a mallet (while the inner part faces up and the outter part is suspended / unsupported from below). If its meant to just fall open I'm not sure the mallet technique will work.

    Does anyone have pictures showing how the flywheel is held together so I can get a better idea of how to get it open? Does the inner bearing need to slide off of the spline shaft? I have a shop manual which doesn't have enough detail. And I've searched for threads with the 355's flywheel open. Best I could find was the 348 flywheel - but still can't see what pieces would be holding everything together.

    Thank you for any help.
     
  6. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 ernie, Apr 10, 2006
    Okay I'm kinda of puzzled now? Do you have the flywheel out or is it still on the tranny, or are you trying to get it out of the cover?
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 ernie, Apr 10, 2006
  8. stason

    stason Rookie

    Mar 8, 2006
    9
    #8 stason, Apr 10, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The flywheel is out of the bell housing (and off of the tranny) but still together. I'm trying to separate the inner piece, which contacts the clutch, from the outter shell, which has the starter ring on it.

    Thanks for the 348 link. I reviewed these before but can't see how the inner part connects to the shell. This picture only shows one side of the assembly.

    It also looks like the 348 flywheel is very different from the 355's. Here are some pictures to help explain.
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  9. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

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    #9 jh355, Apr 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    1.) Bearing with red seal in pic #1 needs to come off the flywheel, use puller.
    2.) remove snap-ring under bearing.
    3.) remove bolts you have marked don't remove.
    4.) pull flywheel assembly out using puller.
    5.) remove the 6 10mm bolts on outer shell.
    6.) DM aluminum cover with o-ring seal will pry out.
    7.) clean up Kluber grease on springs, phenolic washers, spring plate ect..
    8.) replace components, 150g grease,
    9.) assemble

    JH
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  10. racer

    racer Karting
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    #10 racer, Apr 11, 2006
    The inner bearing needs to come out and you will discover a snap ring that holds it's together remove the snap ring and the bolts it should come apart becarfull of the pieces inside don't mix them up and take some photos as you go along. Or you can send the whole thing to me in atlanta and i will redo it for you.
     
  11. Samy

    Samy Formula Junior

    Dec 2, 2005
    603
    #11 Samy, Apr 11, 2006
    What function has the grease? Only noise reduction? Because i don't see the need of lubrication on the parts in the flywheel? There are only 4 torsion springs nothing else.
    ____________________
    Samy
     
  12. stason

    stason Rookie

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    #12 stason, Apr 11, 2006
    Thanks a lot fellahs! I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  13. billwann

    billwann Formula Junior

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    #13 billwann, Apr 11, 2006
    I did this last year , The snap ring got me too . The fun is just stating wait untill you have to clean up the grease , What a pain .
     
  14. stason

    stason Rookie

    Mar 8, 2006
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    #14 stason, Apr 13, 2006
    Alright! I got it open. Thanks for the snap-ring warning and procedure info.

    I pushed out that bearing with the red seal using only its inner lip as a leverage point. Does this mean I need to get a new bearing (since I couldn't push it from the outer lip - and applied all that force to the inner parts)? It seems to still work very smoothly. What’s the standard here?

    I also spin the inner section around before I removed the bearing so I'm not certain of the exact position the inner plates were in relation to the outer shell - since the six 10mm bolts were removed before hand. Will this effect the flywheel's balance - or is this negligible? If so where shall I take it to be rebalanced - the dealer or other ferrari shop...or can many mechanic shops perform this task?

    There are also pretty good scrapes on the inner 'guide' plates - ground down even. Is this normal? The springs and all plastic parts look perfect - but it looks like a few of the springs have gouged grooves in the metal of the outer shell. Is this normal flywheel wear?

    Thanks again.
     
  15. fana355france

    fana355france Formula Junior
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    #15 fana355france, Aug 14, 2006
    I removed the clutch and saw I have same problem .
    You say in your post that you must put 150 gr of grease.
    But where ? only on springs or everywhere ?
    And what type of grease, high temp ? hard grease ?
    The only gasket I have to chage is the big one on the aluminium cover.
    Thanks nico
     
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 ernie, Aug 15, 2006
    Between 150-250g of Kluber GLK1301 grease. Cover the whole thing, kind of like a lemon meringue pie.

    Happy wrenching.
     
  17. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 ernie, Aug 15, 2006
    That and while your at it, change the tripple seals.
     
  18. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #18 davehelms, Aug 15, 2006
    The grease is what does most of the balancing. Upon first start up you will notice how out of balance the whole thing is until the grease moves around to the light side.
    Light scraping and scuffing is no problem. Make sure you identify the source of the leaks and address them. I have yet to find one that requires the replacement of the large Oring. A common leak point is where the rear bearing hub is rivited to the can. I have found that this can be sealed well with "wicking" locktite if it is well cleaned. Heat up with a propane torch numerous times to wick the grease out of the seam, cleaning with brake cleaner after it has cooled.
    The factory had us change the amount of grease put back in. I believe they had us put in 220 Grams (I will have to check my notes at the shop) rather than the amount stated in the manual. FNA frowned on us repairing these but when they were on eternal backodrer from the factory we got the nod and the update on the grease amount. I have always used the grease that is provided by FNA as the viscosity and temp. range is quite critical in this application. Great time to check how flat the disc surface is and have it machined now if required.
    As stated above, what a filthy job!

    Dave
     
  19. fana355france

    fana355france Formula Junior
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    #19 fana355france, Aug 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for so much details realy appreciate.
    I saw that the grease was not realy solid and it was due to a little leak on the bearing, so I ordered for the bearing seals and the 2 O ring of the flywheel and of the axle.
    Here are the refs of seals of the clutch bearing that I already published on another forum if it can help:

    The clutch bearing (old type) is a: SKF ref 6011-2Z/C4 HT22 cost 75 Euros ($85 USD) or better again SNRi 6011zzJ30 cost 35 Euros ($42 USD), which is the one I used.

    The seals:
    Type JF4 28 A cost 5 euros
    Type JF4 32 A cost 5 euros
    Type 40/50/5/8 cost 10 euros

    bye nico
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  20. fana355france

    fana355france Formula Junior
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    #20 fana355france, Aug 16, 2006
    I realy have trouble finding this grease ! I must oder 12 box of 1 kg because not stocked ! and 1kg cost 150 euros ! It cant be the only one grease that could fit on this part !! do you have another make that would make sutch a product ?
    nico
     
  21. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #21 f355spider, Aug 16, 2006
    Check Ricambi America, our sponsor...he used to carry it at a reasonable cost.
     
  22. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #22 ernie, Aug 17, 2006
    What he said.
     
  23. fana355france

    fana355france Formula Junior
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    #23 fana355france, Aug 17, 2006
    I already went to his wenbsite but without part number you can not find..you have a ref number ?
     
  24. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 ernie, Aug 18, 2006
    Send Daniel a pm (jack russell racing) he's pretty good about get back to pm's quickly
    .
     
  25. Ricambi America

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    #25 Ricambi America, Aug 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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