Silicone hoses for cooling system?

**Birdman** · #1 06-14-2007, 12:04 PM

Hey Gang,
As you ALL must be aware by now, MY WIFE'S

little blue Mondial needs some new hoses. I am going through the car and replacing every flexible hose in the cooling system. Philjay50 posed an interesting question in my GP thread about silicone hoses. Anyone have experience with them? In particular, the flexible quality of these hoses will make them easier to swap out in the V of the engine under the plenum. Furthermore, they should seal better against pitted aluminum water pump connections.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Birdman

NYCFERRARIS · #2 06-14-2007, 12:21 PM

Silicone hoses need special clamps. If you are going for durability and longevity...I replaced the cooling hoses in my truck with goodyear "blue" hoses..they are very durable ..handle a lot of preassure and last...they have a kevlar layer I think...they come in special kits for cars but I just matched them up with my hoses from a few kits as well as a roll of heater hose and it was way cheaper than silicone and was just what I was looking for....I was thinking of doing the same on the QV since it blows hoses due to trapped air but I am trying to get over my being a stickler for OEM ...( I know, I keep reading the Sheehan article...our 308's are worthless investments so just do whatever you want to them...and enjoy) but still....old habits die hard...although I think I would drive and enjoy the car so much more if it were reliable.

**Hans** · #3 06-14-2007, 01:19 PM

Birdman,

I've used both ordinary and silicone hoses on my aircraft engine (a Subaru 2.5 liter 4 cylinder one). Quite frankly, I cannot tell the difference between the two. They are about equally stiff (so forget about these being easier to work with), and seem to last equally well. I ended up using both mixed, depending on the size and shape I needed at each location.

FWIW

Hans

P.S. Consider using Oetiker clamps (www.oetiker.com/pdf/clamps_e.pdf)

I've used series 167 throughout, after I had one regular worm clamp leaking, costing me 2 of my 3 gallons of coolant, landing in a big cloud of steam with warped cylinder heads. I'd rather avoid a repeat performance on that one...

M.James · #4 06-14-2007, 01:40 PM

I used Gates Green Stripe hose for my car - its very stiff-walled hose, and requires some serious clamping force to get it to 'seal' around the slightly smaller-diameter aluminum tube in the engine compartment. I used Silca (sp?) Constant-torque hose clamps for my hose sections vs. the run-of-the-mill worm-drive hose clamps. They worked great - but after the job was done, my mechanic had to replace one section and recommended Silicone hose - John Tirrell recommended them. He said the hose would out-last the engine. Personally, I would recommend silicone, simply because its shiny, easy to keep clean, come in highly-visible colors, and are easy to inspect for failures/leaks.

racespecferrari · #5 06-15-2007, 03:29 AM

I'm in the process of changing all my Mondial hoses for sillicone. the main Ferrari water hose is 40mm which I will replace with Samco's 38mm.

**samsaprunoff** · #6 06-16-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCFERRARIS

Silicone hoses need special clamps. If you are going for durability and longevity...I replaced the cooling hoses in my truck with goodyear "blue" hoses..they are very durable ..handle a lot of preassure and last... <snip>

Good day Birdman,

I, too, have used the Goodyear "Blue hi-miler" silicone based hose with great results. However, I must agree with using special/different clamps. I did not know to do this, and I replaced my clamps with SS ABA worm-gear style. Although the ABA clamps work well, they become loose over time... say 4-6 weeks or so.

Cheers,

Sam

**RGigante** · #7 06-16-2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousferrari

I'm in the process of changing all my Mondial hoses for sillicone. the main Ferrari water hose is 40mm which I will replace with Samco's 38mm.

I've recently replaced all my 18 years old hoses with Samco 38mm. It's a 328 and I can say that the silicone hoses are in fact easier to fit under the plenum.
They should last longer, too. And I've used all stainless Wurth clamps (including the screw)
1,500 Km later, all is well ....

racespecferrari · #8 06-16-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGigante

I've recently replaced all my 18 years old hoses with Samco 38mm. It's a 328 and I can say that the silicone hoses are in fact easier to fit under the plenum.
They should last longer, too. And I've used all stainless Wurth clamps (including the screw)
1,500 Km later, all is well ....

Did you have any issues with under the plenum and did you have to remove anything?. I will be using Mikalor clamps, I have always found them the best

http://www.powerengineering.co.uk/mikalor/

**RGigante** · #9 06-16-2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrousferrari

Did you have any issues with under the plenum and did you have to remove anything?. I will be using Mikalor clamps, I have always found them the best

http://www.powerengineering.co.uk/mikalor/

I've used the Wurth clamps because they were the only all stainless I could find, meaning that even the bolt and thread are stainless. That was after I had some trouble removing some of the clamps that had zinc'ed bolts ....

Here's a picture of the work. I took advantage of the fact that I needed to remove the plenum, to clean everything and also replace the thermo switch ... so I had no big issues. If you decide to remove the plenum, be very carefull with the metal spacers that are between the plenum and intake manifold ! Search the archives for "removing the plenum": I've posted a few pictures and the removal process.

**Pizzaman Chris** · #10 06-16-2007, 07:46 AM

Can you get the hoses in red too?

racespecferrari · #11 06-16-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris03053

Can you get the hoses in red too?

Yes, But blue is their standard colour and all others are about a 3 week order

**snj5** · #12 06-16-2007, 09:48 AM

This is a minor cross pst, but...

While not original, would it be possible or advisable to replace the long coolant hoses with a stainless steel or similar metal piece?

It seems a quality muffler shop could bend a piece of s/s pipe to fit. Rubber mounting hangars could be used as well.

racespecferrari · #13 06-16-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snj5

This is a minor cross pst, but...

While not original, would it be possible or advisable to replace the long coolant hoses with a stainless steel or similar metal piece?

It seems a quality muffler shop could bend a piece of s/s pipe to fit. Rubber mounting hangars could be used as well.

You could buy a long length of ali tubing to save on weight and fit a silicone coupling, alternatively most silicone hose manufacturers could supply any long length required at way below Ferrari prices

**Birdman** · #14 06-16-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snj5

While not original, would it be possible or advisable to replace the long coolant hoses with a stainless steel or similar metal piece?

Russ, I don't know about the 3.2, but on the QV the long coolant hoses go through little channels in the car, and you would not be able to get a long, rigid pipe in there. The hose needs to be flexible to install it because it has to be bent around the undercarriage to install/remove. Netx time you are under the car, you will see what I mean.

Birdman

89vr · #15 06-16-2007, 05:30 PM

Just an FYI, I have an excellent relationship w/ silflex which is the parent company of samco and others. I can get you guys anything you want pretty much at cost. Most of the silicon is 4 and even 5 ply. Samco supplies Ferrari with hose but without the samco stamp on it, they want everyone to think they make it themselves. so don't tell anyone

Even if you need a custom piece, it can be produced, sand molded and wrapped. Any color you want, price is excellent. I won't mark it up for fchatters, just need to cover shipping costs.

-Chris

**Birdman** · #16 06-16-2007, 06:19 PM

Chris,
What you have there is an outstanding opportunity to produce complete ready-to-go kits for various Ferraris! Maybe we should start with a 308 kit (red of course!) with all the hose bits to replace all the pieces in a 308?

Birdman

89vr · #17 06-16-2007, 10:06 PM

I can do it if someone could send me all the pieces for a complete kit. I'm sure they are some differences between the cooling systems for carb'd 2V's, 4V's and fuel injected 2V's/4v's. Any differences between mondi's and 308's need to be noted as well if any. I can also get any length tube's w/ premolded bends in them, so the long pieces from front to rear could possibly be 5ply if someone wanted them. If price is a problem, there are several silicon mfg's from siliflex to samco, to some china mfgs, the quality is all the same, but pricing is cheaper in china. I use the china mfg's for certain rfp's/rfb's which I need to win.

If someone can get me a complete oem kit and there is enough interest, this can really happen. There's a lot more 308 owners out there than mondy guys.

-Chris

racespecferrari · #18 06-17-2007, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman

Chris,
Maybe we should start with a Mondial kit (red of course!) with all the hose bits to replace all the pieces in a Mondial?

Birdman

I couldn't agree more

. And your wife would be happy

racespecferrari · #19 06-17-2007, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman

Russ, I don't know about the 3.2, but on the QV the long coolant hoses go through little channels in the car, and you would not be able to get a long, rigid pipe in there. The hose needs to be flexible to install it because it has to be bent around the undercarriage to install/remove. Netx time you are under the car, you will see what I mean.

Birdman

I was thinking of replacing the long hose you are referring to. But the previous owner Waxoyled everything, and to be honest once I pulled a red hose through it would be black by the time it came through the other side.

**snj5** · #20 06-17-2007, 07:33 AM

Hmm
The Mondial is currently engine out on jacks - perhaps now is the time.

Birdman - wouldn't you already have the specs on a set of Mondial hoses and clamps for a kit having just done yours? How difficult was the installation?

I am also getting one of those inexpensive geared high torque starters as a reliability upgrade (and also since going to higher compression). This might be another really nice preventive and reliability upgrade.

Will try to get under the car this week and have a look.