Latest victim of the 348 gearbox curse | FerrariChat

Latest victim of the 348 gearbox curse

Discussion in '348/355' started by reinerkaiser, Jul 3, 2007.

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  1. reinerkaiser

    reinerkaiser Karting

    Nov 25, 2003
    151
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Reiner Kaiser
    Sadly, my gearbox started whining on a recent canyon drive, it still shifts fine and car drives but noticable whine in all gears and draining gearbox fluid showed some debris (some small fingermail size splinters looking to be from a ring of some sorts, or perhaps gear shavings.... inspection case opened but could not see anything relevant / out of place there.

    I already spent some time in the archives and i know whats next, thanks to Ernie and FBB and their detailed (with pictures) instructions on how to remove / disassemble the GB.

    Will spend the weekend to take the GB out and apart, when the time comes I might have some questions regarding parts sourcing (such as bearing rebuilds / replacements and gear/countergear sourcing etc.)

    I know Ferrari will charge huge $$$$ for these!

    should be fun!
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    I was thinking that someone (Samy, perhaps?) installed a non-Italian 5 speed into their 348 turbo. Might be worth enquiring about.
     
  3. VTChris

    VTChris F1 World Champ

    Aug 21, 2005
    13,259
    fwiw:

    burnouts cause major gearbox problems... (not saying it was you, but one of the previous owners)

    :)

    my two cents
     
  4. reinerkaiser

    reinerkaiser Karting

    Nov 25, 2003
    151
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Reiner Kaiser
    no doubt, thanks but right now my hope (in vain as it may be) is that not too much damage was done and it might be as simple as a bearing replacement etc.
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    It strikes me as counter intuitive that the rubber on your tires is stronger than the steel in your gearbox.

    ...but hey, I just drift my 348. What do I know.
     
  6. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Honorary club membership can start here. See the thread "are 348's bulletproof" for a copy of my coroner's report with pictures.
     
  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways

    ...Enquiring minds want to know: Did you do burnouts to cause your tranny damage?
     
  8. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner


    I think you need to look further up the food chain. The 348 motor is more powerful than the gearbox.
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways

    Aye. I think that you are a smart man.
     
  10. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    QUICK!! Can I have you call my wife and repeat that statement??? She'll never believe it!!
     
  11. reinerkaiser

    reinerkaiser Karting

    Nov 25, 2003
    151
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Reiner Kaiser
    no sorry guys, no burnouts, just spirited canyon road driving.
    this particular issue seems to have happened to a lot of 348 gearboxes,
    might go back as far as initial assembly in the factory if i understand some of the threads correctly.
     
  12. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways

    Yup.
     
  13. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
    The Brickyard
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    The Bad Guy
    Sorry to hear about your misfortune Reiner.

    If you need a hand I'll be glad to go down and help you. Heck I bet we could get the Stooges together for another tranny tear down and rebuild.
    billybob, plugs and goth are all in your neck of the woods, and I'm more than happy to make the trip down.

    A word of caution...... DO NOT START THE CAR!!! If you get those gears turning you could DESTROY your ring and pinion gear. You may get lucky and only need to deal with the stupid oil pump bearing. So again DON'T START THE CAR!!!
     
  14. reinerkaiser

    reinerkaiser Karting

    Nov 25, 2003
    151
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Reiner Kaiser
    quick update: took the gearbox out of the car, this worked really well following "nodoubts" nice step-by-step instructions. A few changes I might want to suggest for his writeup:

    1) there is no need to remove the parking brake cable. Once the cable is removed from the spring-loaded mechanism coming from the handle, it will have enough play to be moved out of the way.

    2) there is no need to remove the cats. transmission will drop down fine.

    3) it wasn't really clear from the writeup that the wheel-side connectors of the axle boots did not need to be removed, once the cv joint on the transmission side is disconnected it will just move out of the way.

    I built a small wooden cradle with wheels and dropped the gearbox on the cradle then rolled it out of the way. Now the fun part of disassembly will start.

    Question for Ernie:

    what kind of damage did you see on your gb?
     
  15. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,880
    Sonoma, CA
    take plenty of pics
     
  16. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    Uh .......... my steps wouldn't have had you do any of that.
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124766

    The pinion gear was missing LOTS of teeth, only 2 teeth were good. I was able to see it buy removing the bottom inspection plate on the gearbox. Once I pulled off the oil pump cover on the side, I saw what caused the whole mess, the bearing on the lay shaft was DESTROYED. As a result of that the oil pump gear heated up the hole, on the little inner cover that the pump shaft fits through, and attaches to the layshaft, and almost welded itself to the inner cover. The snycros on 4th & 5th gear were shot because of the layshaft moving around.
     
  17. reinerkaiser

    reinerkaiser Karting

    Nov 25, 2003
    151
    Redondo Beach
    Full Name:
    Reiner Kaiser
    Ernie,

    your damage sounds worse than mine. So I now have some real hope that the whine might be due to ...

    -bad oil pump bearing?

    -misaligned (badly shimmed) pinion gears?

    will find out more on the weekend. I will also try to get a hold
    of our fat friend.
     
  18. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 19, 2001
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    The Bad Guy
    The whining is due to either the gears not meshing properly, meaning the lay shaft is moving around, or broken teethe on a gear/s. In either or both cases I bet it's that stupid oil pump bearing on the lay shaft.

    Just don't start the engine. Even if the tranny is in neutral the gears still move. The out put shaft still turns the gears, via the clutch, you just won't have a gear selected. You don't want any bits getting sucked up by the oil pump or by the gears. You MAY have gotten lucky, but then again maybe not. Be sure to check out the synchros REALLY well. That lay/main shaft moving around can put extra pressure on the synchro and the synchro-ring causing them to wear faster. Mine were grooved pretty bad. So even if you get away with just the bearing being toast, you could still have some damage to a synchro. But let's HOPE not.
     
  19. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Juan-Manuel Fantango F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
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    Juan
    #19 Juan-Manuel Fantango, Jul 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    For the secound time, the ring nut on mine was loose. Why in gods name can't they fix this problem? I was told Red Lock Tight would fix this, but I am not convinced, as the dealer claimed they used it. Anyone who does burn outs is asking for it, although I recently had to do one to advoid being clobbered at www.tailofthedragon.com. The first time I burned up a "Michelotti Box".
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    I don't see how doing burnouts should have any effect on the internal bearings of the transmission. I can see how it would affect the the axle hub bearings, or the cv joints, but not a bearing all the way inside the box.

    Plus, how is it that the stupid bearing on the lay shaft is the ONLY bearing to be affect here?! Every gear box failure I have heard of in a 348 is the exact same bearing. Why wouldn't the bearing on the main shaft get eaten? Or how about on the other side of the transmission, why none of those? It seems to only be the bearing on the layshaft, on the gearbox oil pump side of the tranny.
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    +1

    Besides...if I'm wrong I'll find out plenty fast!
     
  22. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    LOL, you sure will won't you.
     
  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,574
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    The Bad Guy
    Well boys I just got off the phone with Reiner, and he's diggin into the gear box. We'll soon find out if it is that damn oil pump bearing that strikes again.

    Speaking of which. I have been mistakenly saying that it is the bearing on the lay shaft. WRONG!!!! It's actually the bearing on the MAIN shaft. The main shaft is the one at the rear of the gearbox, which is also the shaft that turns the oil pump. So I just wanted to clear that up.

    Now back to Reiner's tranny. I'm hoping he'll only need to replace the outer bearings. Keep your fingers crossed boys.
     
  24. redzone

    redzone Formula 3
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2007
    1,218
    Beach
    Full Name:
    John
    Hey Ernie , the MOST STREEEEESSSSSS on a box is when it is forced to un-natural things " like a burnout " , if its not bad , how can it be good ? The gears are very small compared to other cars of comparable weight , the nuts loosen , the main shaft slides side to side , the bearing on the oil pump side deteriorates , & the ring gear on the main shaft makes intermittant contact with the pinion gear that is spun by the clutch shaft , other than that , I guess you are right , burnouts are a " great idea " , next to setting it on fire or painting it orange , for every guy that says he laid rubber I'd like for them to post the video of their bravado ? Dont be shy!

    +1
     
  25. redzone

    redzone Formula 3
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2007
    1,218
    Beach
    Full Name:
    John
    You WILL find out fast , instead of a burnout , take your wallet & throw it in a paper shredder , bon-fire , mail it to the government .....its the same thing , truly ....get it....to discourage the abuse of a 348 I implure all that drive one to price out the lay shaft , clutch shaft , pinion gear , all bearings & main shaft for good measure . I assure you , after that , you will be 'cured ' of burnouts ! :eek:)
     

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