328 Interior Redone | FerrariChat

328 Interior Redone

Discussion in '308/328' started by Bullfighter, Sep 15, 2007.

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  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #1 Bullfighter, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This post is way overdue, as a couple of FChat'ers will verify. I took my '87 328 up to Monterey this year for the Concorso Italiano, and in advance of that had the leather redone by Symbolic Motors in San Diego. This year, this 328 was judged platinum, also Best V8 Ferrari at Concorso and 3rd Place in the Best of Show. Last year the best it did was second place in a local FOC/FCA event, so the impact of the interior is significant if you're out for points.

    I took several before and after photos and will try to explain what was done, why and how. If you've bought a 328 as a driver, and not as a show car, you probably don't need to do all of this. If you're in the market for a 328, I've seen a lot of these cars in various states of preservation so hopefully this will guide you as you look at 308/328s with tan interiors.

    Frankly I wasn't satisfied with any of the interiors of the 328s I looked at, so my ultimate decision was to (1) buy a mechanically great car; (2) buy the color I wanted, which turned out to limit my selection drastically ('cause it ain't red! -- and black metallic wasn't popular in the '80s...); and (3) live with the car a couple of years before dumping significant money into a new interior.

    First off, the before photos. The first thing you'll notice is that the interior really doesn't look that bad. In fact I lived with it for a while because compared to some of the hard-as-plywood seat leather in some 308/328s this interior was still supple. The photos of the driver's side bolster and adjuster show the most vulnerable areas in the '87-'88 328 seats, so they make it look worse than it was. Note that '86 cars have plastic adjuster covers without leather (a cheaper-looking but probably better design), and the late 328s have a simpler seat adjuster design as well.

    The bolster rub annoyed me, but the hides used in these cars are thick and that allows quite a bit of margin for wear without actually cracking the hides (you're seeing surface cracking in the dye here). There was a tear in the leather on the adjuster cover, and the flap of loose leather was simply glued down to present an acceptable appearance.

    The real problem, as you'll see in the close-ups, is the stitching. The leather was re-dyed using Leatherique, and the thread was soaked with the stuff. I know this product gets raves on FChat, but IMHO it is a mediocre solution at best, and if poorly done is ruinous to the leather. My advice to you, if your seats have some scrapes and rub, is to consult with a skilled upholstery shop (Symbolic or Bobileff are both good, for those located in SoCal) before applying any kind of spray-on or top dye. There are better techniques. Once this dye permeates the stitching, your interior will not look original. There are people here who like dye products, so feel free to ask around. But once you've seen a re-dyed interior, it will always look either slightly or terribly "off".

    The other thing to notice in the before pics is the gloss on the leather. This is not how the original leather looked. The especially plasticky-looking gloss at the top of the driver's seatback bolster is likely from bad preparation - i.e., the leather was improperly stripped before dyeing.

    In the next post, you'll see the quality of the original leather versus the re-dye.
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  2. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    #2 Bullfighter, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So what did the 328 leather look like way back when? We got a good look once the old seat covers were removed. This piece is the driver's seatback, which wraps around and tucks in underneath and below the headrest. The parts protected from Leatherique show that the original surface did not look painted on, but shows quite a bit of leather grain and is actually sort of dull-ish.

    When you drive around a corner, the difference is very noticeable, as the top-dyed surface is glossy and somewhat slick. You tend to slide around a bit, not very Ferrari-like. The original leather had texture, and here you can see the damage done to the thread.

    What you can't see here, because I forgot to take pics, was the cushioning on the underside of the leather. The dyed leather does not breathe. There were ugly sweat stains along the stitching where moisture got in and couldn't escape. I doubt there are real hygiene issues with this, but it's not something you really would want to see photos of.

    EDIT: Top photo is the old piece sitting atop the new piece. Bottom photo is the old piece folded back on itself, showing the original undyed leather.
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  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #3 Bullfighter, Sep 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    We used leather supplied by GAHH in North Hollywood, but the upholsterer advised not using the seat cover kits due to the difficulty in getting these to fit correctly (seats change shape over 20 years...) He bought a roll of the hide, and then ended up sending it back and getting a second roll of the hides that had no significant blemishes. The color for the '80s Ferrari beige is 3218. GAHH has a heat stamp to duplicate the headrest embossed horsey, so the headrest top pieces were bought separately. Thread was also sourced from GAHH to get as close as possible to the 1980's thread color/construction.

    Although the door panels and center console had no real damage (a few minor scuffs, but acceptable on a 1987 car), they too had been dyed, which meant that in order for everything to match it all had to be done. If you are considering this, I would recommend you do all of it, just to get the grains and colors perfectly matched. It was done by hand back in '87, and it was done by hand again in '07. However, whatever pains you take to duplicate the leather and thread colors, you'll always be able to pick out the old from the new, and it's important to restart the patina process with all surfaces being equal.

    The goal was to duplicate the original, so you won't see any piping or striping, etc. The 328 interior - especially those door panels - is among my favorites in Ferraris 'modern-classic' lineup, so the goal was to be faithful to it. The black vinyl on the dash and door grips remained in perfect condition, so we left it alone (a DashMat came with my car and the previous owners apparently used it all the time, and with great results). The carpets were also near perfect, so no reason to mess with them.
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  4. lee328gts

    lee328gts Formula Junior

    Aug 8, 2004
    345
    planet earth
    Full Name:
    Lee
    love that interior combo. black and camel! looks good, lee
     
  5. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    So, old 328, new interior. Thoughts:

    The 360/430 guys: I've always loved the 308/328, but every time you get into one you can't deny that it feels like an old car. Partly this is because the ergonomics are a joke. Partly it's because whatever other nice car you have has a soft, clean and smells-like-heaven interior that ensconces you. The 360 isn't my favorite Ferrari, yet I can say whenever I've been in one I've come away thinking it was just a nicer car than what I had. Not better looking, but you got a big whiff of luxury and it felt opulent as well as sickeningly fast. With the interior redone in my 328, the fantasy that you're in a 2007 Ferrari 328 isn't that far off. It looks and smells like a new car inside, and can acquire a bit of patina under seat of an owner who knows how to get in and out of it without scraping it up. In short, you don't feel as though you "settled" for a used car.

    Also the new hides add about 140bhp and greatly improve handling.**

    Cost: Is it a worthwhile investment? I'm pretty rational about most of what I spend money on, but I have a pact of sorts with this car. It makes me happy, and I don't play the part of a beancounter. I'd say it is worth more now that it was with re-dyed and rubbed seats, but honestly the typical used car dealer could have sanded and dyed the rubbed parts and pushed it out on the lot for not much less than I could get for her now. Overall I'd say it would be tough to recoup all the money spent in the short-term. In the longer term, I think I would come out all right. Truth is I don't stay awake nights worrying about it. I have the Ferrari I wanted, and beyond that there's not much to justify.



    ** Yeah, yeah...
     
  6. EastSide328

    EastSide328 Karting

    Jan 18, 2007
    120
    Gull Island
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Beautiful job, looks great.

    You must be nervous as hell just climing in and out of the car & fear of scratch marks ...
     
  7. Futureman

    Futureman Formula 3

    May 16, 2007
    2,024
    Cost be damned. These are toys. Toys are the enjoyment of the owner. You can't put a price on that. It looks awesome. I would imagine the feel and smell make it feel like it was brand new. Black/tan combo is fantastic. I used to have a black Alfa 164S with tan interior. Nobody does tan interior like the Italians. I'm lucky in that the tan interior on my red GTB is near mint. Benefits of buying a car that spent it's whole life babied in upstate NY. I'm sure after a decade of my ownership in North Alabama, I'll need a leather redo as well.

    Don't sweat it BF. Totally worth the money.
     
  8. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 7, 2005
    2,759
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    Adams Hudson
    Great, great job Bullfighter. I agree that the 'before' just didn't look all that bad (in fact, looks a LOT like my car now). But I could almost smell the 'after' photos. You know, you forget it can look like that - - and bejesus LOOKED JUST LIKE THAT in the showroom oh so long ago.

    Funny thing, smell. My Porsche has ZERO leather aroma though its everywhere (full 'supple' the Pcar folks call it) and yet my ancient old Fcar has it. Every time I open the door it's there.

    Your car may not bring every dime you put in it today, but if you're not bothered by that and in fact enjoy it more, who cares? You did a fabulous job, all around. I'm sorry I gawked at the photos more than I read the text, but did you mention how you got the Cavallino embossed in the headrest?
     
  9. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    Absolutely. :)

    Thanks! Nah it's not the money. It's the new car look/feel/smell in my favorite car that counts.

    GAHH has the heat stamp die for the cavallino in the headrest. If you buy their seat 'kit' you'll get the same embossing you see on mine.

    And yes, I wish Rob would upgrade the FChat software so I could post the aroma file. ;)
     
  10. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2006
    6,081
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    Enrico Pollini
    You need to have the Moderators change your title in this thread to " Warning you made need adult underware"

    I think I just SH:t myself...
     
  11. BLUROAD

    BLUROAD F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2006
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    Enrico Pollini
    Jon I see your still online. Are you coming to FChat awards???
     
  12. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,993
    Ponchatoula, LA
    Beautiful interior Jon!

    How did you do the controls in the console? Did you order new ones, were the originals OK, polish/refurbish them?
     
  13. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    Can't make it up to LA tonight. Did I win the 2007 FChat Windbag award?

    Originals were OK. The leather behind them was filthy, so when that was replaced it made the console look a bit nicer.

    I didn't detail the interior for a few months before the redo, so the controls/gate were probably not super clean.
     
  14. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
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    Stuart K. Hicks
    Whoa!! looks factory fresh. I've resigned to spend money on my car for my pleasure too and not for investment reasons. Those seats pay dividends just not financial ones.

    You must be lovin' it.

    Nice..very very nice.
     
  15. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
    1,598
    Rhode Island
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    Dino
    Hi Jon,

    Its amazing how fresh and beautiful the new interior makes your car look. I have never seen a "leatheriqued" interior up close, but just seeing how shiny and plasticky it made the leather look I'm amazed that people use that stuff. That photo of the old leather next to untreated leather and/or the new leather shows such an amazing difference. Congrats on bringing the interior "back from its leatheriqued" days. I'm sure now you can really enjoy the car the way it was meant to be enjoyed with a rich looking beautiful leather interior.
    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  16. Brunello

    Brunello Formula Junior

    Sep 10, 2005
    250
    Vancouver, British C
    Full Name:
    Al
    Congrats on the new interior Jon.

    I would have done exactly the same thing -definitely not about the money, it's the grin on your face that counts.

    PS: What are you doing with those old original seat covers....lol

    I hope you're recycling them!

    Al
     
  17. John Harry

    John Harry Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2005
    328
    Pittsburgh PA
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    John Harry
    Beautiful job. I'm sure the results make it all worthwhile.
     
  18. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    I kept the driver's seat back as a souvenir. The rest of it's gone - the padding/lining on the back really didn't look too appetizing afer 20 years, unless you're a sweat stain aficionado.
     
  19. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    1,391
    Boise,Idaho
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    Josh
    Nice work!
     
  20. Jeff328

    Jeff328 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2006
    2,293
    WI
    Looks fantastic! My tan interior is in quite a bit better shape than yours originally was but it's not "perfect" so the thought is always in the back of my mind of eventually having it redone. May I be so vulgar as to ask how much the refurbishment cost? Or at least into what ballpark the cost fell?
     
  21. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Mid four figures.

    If your interior hasn't been re-dyed, a professional leather guy can probably restore it without the need for a redo. It also depends on your goal - show car or nice driver. An honest patina can be fine for show, but a re-dye is not an honest patina.
     
  22. DinoScuderia

    DinoScuderia Karting

    Apr 15, 2007
    206
    USA
    Full Name:
    Dean
    It looks great Bullfighter. Nice job.

    I recently was taking pics of a Boxer and it had the windows open and I was surprised that it had the new car smell.

    The owner told me that the interior was redone and it looked great but I think that it was the smell that really made the difference to me.
     
  23. jonesdds

    jonesdds Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2006
    2,160
    SB,CA & Park City UT
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    Jeff
    Looks fantastic Jon!

    I'm curious about the doors. My understanding and it appears on my car that only the panel is leather. The handles, armrest and door pocket are vinyl. Maybe with the leather interior option, all of it is leather. Everything of the door looks new to me, how was your's redone? Also, as far as the door pockets, the fit looks fantastic from what I can see. Mine, like many others I'm sure don't shut all that when. Was anything special done to refit them to original condition or were they already that way?

    Again, great looking interior. I agree, spend the money if it makes you happy. I'm sure it's very rewarding to get the awards you got at the Concorso. Congrats.

    Jeff
     
  24. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,280
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    Yours looks great. I did the same thing to mine back in 02. It looked so nice I didn't want to sit in it. I bought seat covers right away and the only time I take them off is at a show. In fact, I think the seat covers are just about the best investment I have ever made in my car.
     
  25. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2003
    37,253
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    John
    That looks GREAT. Looks like they did an amazing job.
     

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