What's baking? My headlights,..uh-oh trouble! | FerrariChat

What's baking? My headlights,..uh-oh trouble!

Discussion in '360/430' started by brokenarrow, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #1 brokenarrow, Dec 18, 2007
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    Okay, I got the headlight out. Pulling the bumper off is half the work as getting the light out. It is a major undertaking as you have to remove so many screws and bolts it's unbelievable. I may not remember where they all go. You even have to remove the ignitor and the front brackets, on and on. I have pics shown. Also, after getting it out and baking it, it didn't give a centimeter. The adhesive they use is rather cheesie too--see pic. You really can't leave it in the oven too long as there are other small pieces made of rubber that may be compromised. Mine was in the over for over 30 minutes at 200F and it got hot as hell, but the adhesive just didn't even soften. I may use some chemical to melt it. That may work.

    I placed the light on the counter after it had heated and noticed a small piece of plastic that was cracked. It appeared to be the controller for leveling the lights--actually the cogs. As I moved the cover, little pieces fell out on the counter. There was some dirt in there too--no surprise. At first I thought it was the cat since she's so damn fat, but she couldn't have gotten to it. That said, it may have already been cracked and not functioning and I just didn't know it. I have a new light on the way for delivery tomorrow morning, hopefully. I just can't bring myself to put this one back in after all the work.

    Will I attempt the other light? No. Here's why; it's to damn hard to get them out, and the oven WILL NOT work on these things. I may try to use a heat gun but that can warp or stain the plastic. I'm going to have to think about it and welcome any suggestions. If I come up with nothing, I'll buy another light for the other side too.

    Have a lot at all the pictures. I don't know if I can put it back together again. As long as I have no screws left, right?

    Oh, check out the size of that breather tube. Man, a roach could get in there. I'll be plugging it with some breathable insulation to reduce the amount of sht that gets in there.
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  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 No Doubt, Dec 18, 2007
    Since you are replacing that lamp-housing anyway, why not spray some invisble-glass cleaner from Stoner in through the light bulb opening to see if spraying and allowing to sit upside to drain overnight cleans the interior?
     
  3. Tom(Atl)

    Tom(Atl) Formula Junior

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    #3 Tom(Atl), Dec 18, 2007
    Use a high-power hairdryer instead. You can focus and control the heat with much higher precision, and easily do a test area to see if it will work. Should be easier to monitor the progress too.
     
  4. Tom(Atl)

    Tom(Atl) Formula Junior

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    #4 Tom(Atl), Dec 18, 2007
    Also don't use breathable insulation - this would result in condensation forming in your headlamp. You need to use a good plastic sealant (from Home Depot). This would also be a good opportunity to polish your headlamps and get them looking better than new.
     
  5. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #5 brokenarrow, Dec 18, 2007
    Tom,

    The insulation would go inside the breathing tube; allowing the headlight to still breath, but limit the intake of dust and dirt. A hair dryer won't get hot enough for me to work around the entire circumfrence of the light. The things are really a challenge. I'm still thinking chemicals.
     
  6. Tom(Atl)

    Tom(Atl) Formula Junior

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    #6 Tom(Atl), Dec 18, 2007
    I understand now. Sorry to hear about your troubles. That's too bad. How much was the new headlamp? At least while you have the bumper off, you could easily install skid plates and an 355 (air-) horn.

    I am curious, does the paint under the headlamp cover have the same texture and clearcoat as the paint on the body and bumpers? Would it be easy to repaint once you have accessed it?
     
  7. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #7 360trev, Dec 18, 2007
    With a bit of care using a very sharp knife you can cut around the edge of the plastic cover of the 360 light and prize it open.

    I know this is possible because I've seen it done on a 360, actually it was done on my 360 lights when converting the cars color from Rosso Corsa D.S. 322 to Rosso Scuderia. Once this is done you can clean it properly (even color code it a different color like my car) and then bond it back together as good as new. They look brand new. I'll see if I can get some pictures from when it was done.

    Trev
     
  8. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #8 brokenarrow, Dec 18, 2007
    Interesting. I believe I could pull that off, too. I will need an oddly shaped knife though as the ridge is not even for a cut. I'm going to go check on it after dinner. I also did the front brakes and replaced the rotors. I'll post that once I'm finished. I'll get back on the cutting shortly.
     
  9. hotcello

    hotcello Formula Junior

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    #9 hotcello, Dec 18, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This sounds like a familiar subject for me. 2 months ago I got a new headlight from ebay to replace my cracked one. The seller claim that it is a xenon headlight but when it arrived it was not. Rather than sending it back and forth and all the BS, I did a transplant from the old headlight to the new one. I took a shar knife and cut around the edge of the actual housing where the bulb sits and managed to get it open after and hour of cutting and digging. The final picture was not pretty but got the job done. What they put on to seal the light is a very strong gray color silicon that is like hard rubber. after cutting it open and swaping it I use a clear silicon from pepboys and seal it back. No problems. I thought for sure that I was going to cut my hand with way the head light was sealed. I order a used headlight from Specialized Italian from Ebay and they only had it in blue but told me that they will painted it for me but a day later, they told me that it melted in the oven.
    Oh, the part that cracked on yours happend to my as well, It shattered in pieces when you touch it. I actually super glue it and don't even know if that does anything.
    Good luck. A new xenon headlight from the dealer costs around $2300 dollars.
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  10. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #10 brokenarrow, Dec 18, 2007
    I'm having a difficult time recognizing that piece. Is that the center of the headlight box? I noticed there were two pieces when I looked closely at it. That piece I showed broken, appeared to have been so for awhile. I could not determine its function as it does not appear to tie into anything on the car that I could see. I'll check again tomorrow morning. These things are really cheaply made and really aren't worth messing with if you ask me. I love working with my hands, but getting these things in and out are incredibly hard at best.
     
  11. hotcello

    hotcello Formula Junior

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    #11 hotcello, Dec 18, 2007
    The piece that cracked is the levler adjuster. It suppose to adjust the angle of the housing that tilts up and down to aim your light beam. you really don't have to touch it as it won't move. The picture I show you is when you seperate the housing and the lense cover. If you are only looking to clean the inside, you can take a cloth duster and go in through the holes where the bulbs go.
     
  12. tonyc

    tonyc Formula 3

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    #12 tonyc, Dec 18, 2007
    Brokenarrow thought about that long ago, but he realized that he ran the risk of scratching the lense because of the amount of pressure he would have to apply to get it clean.


    Brokenarrrow I salute you at attemtping the oven method for us and posting the pictures!

    I wonder if there is some chemical that will melt the seal but not harm the paint or the lense ....
     
  13. masar

    masar Formula 3

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    #13 masar, Dec 19, 2007
    Brokenarrow, thanks for your post and pictures. I am fighting with same issue as described in other thread. I also wanted to post pictures but i am out of home for few days now and you are faster:) I agree thet removal of the light is tough job, i just removed it few days ago. If you would need to remind where to put some screws, just let me know, hopefully i remeber :))

    I confirm what Trev says. The light can be opened somehow since as i see your pictures, mine light was definitely already opened before and resealed. I realy like the idea of hotcello to separate it the way hi did. I think its better and safer solution. I have different reason to open it, i have scratched part i marked yellow on attached picture (used broken`s picture). I will try hotcello`s mehod and will inform.

    BTW i dont know how to paint it to look chrome again, its plastic and there is high temperature from bulb. I think using standars chrome spray for plastic is not best idea, beside the paint does not look same. If anyone would have destroyed light with the back ok, i might be interested, mine is standard, not xenon....
     
  14. masar

    masar Formula 3

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    #14 masar, Dec 19, 2007
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  15. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #15 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
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    Thanks Tony.

    I tried using an exacto knife and box cutter but it is completely hopeless as you cannot cut beneath the bevel. You see the lens has a lip that protrudes approximately 1/4 inch into the red housing. So when you insert your knife you bump into the lip. You can't go under the lip where the adhesive puddles and grabs the lens. Unless you can make a knife that is extremely strong, razor thin, and semi-U shaped, there is no way you can cut around it. You may be able to cut the lens housing out that just contains the light fixtures but you will not have 100% access to the rest of the lens--so why even bother.

    The heat gun is an option but you'd have to figure out a way to heat the entire circumfrence of the lens at the same time--no way folks. Besides, you will certainly stain the plastic with heat prints. Chemicals appear to be the only option left that I can see may have an affect. The rubberized material they use was applied in a very sloppy manner, not to mention way too much.

    I have some goo off I may test a small area to see if it will loosen the material. Any thoughts appreciated, of course.

    Also, that piece that was broken is used for adjusting the headlight's beam. You see, it is exactly where you insert your hex to change the beams direction. I played with it and saw if move other wheels that controlled the lights projection. So, the previous poster was right; you don't need it, as long as you never need to adjust you lights. If my light were in great shape, I too would put it back in as the beam was already in great position. My advice, if your lights are pointed in a happy place, and yours breaks, F-it. Put it back in and enjoy.

    Pics attached...

    THE LAST PIC SHOWS THE BLADE DEAD-ENDING INTO THE PLASTIC LIP--YOU CAN GO NO FURTHER WITH THE BLADE.
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  16. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #16 RayJohns, Dec 19, 2007
    Hey guys...

    Just thought I would chime in here briefly with a suggestion on breaking the seal between the lens and the housing. I don't think many chemicals will do it, since most of those adhesives are made to withstand chemicals. One possible idea would be this.

    Without seeing the seal area directly, here is my idea: what if you took a very strong (and thin) wire and carefully worked it through a small area of the seal in one location. I'm thinking you could use a heat gun to soften the seal, then carefully thread the wire through (up and over that edge) until you get it through/past the seal in one very small spot. Once you have done this, then grab both ends and run it along the seam as you follow with a heat gun. I would think once you dragged the wire clear around the seam, it would act as a knife and cut the sealant around the light, without creating too much damage. You'd have to hold the inner end of the wire from the hole in the light, but basically once you got a hold of it on the outside, you could pull the outside end of the wire around. If the wire was thin and strong enough, it should act as a thin knife to separate the seal I would think.

    Anyway, just a suggestion.

    Ray
     
  17. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #17 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
    Hi Ray. How's it going?

    I thought of that, and attempted to push a stainless steel piece of wire through but it just bumps into that lip. I can't even pry the lens a centimeter off the housing. I did make an attempt to cut away the silicone internal housing and that failed too. My new headlight just arrived at Boardwalk Ferarri and it should be here within the hour.

    I planned to conquer this headlight and extract the other with the solution to clean the lens. No luck. I'm not one to give up on anything, but I just can't get into it unless I do some cutting or cracking. I'm going to shelve this unit and think about it as sometimes things come to me later that may be the solution. I agree, the adhesive is not some glue, it's an epoxy that is VERY strong and most likely resistant to chemicals. I've managed to peel some off that I will subject to everything from alcohol to nuclear waste to see if I can get it to break down. If I find something that will work, I'll proceed to the unit.

    I will be putting the car together as soon as the light gets here without attempting to do the other. I'm pretty bummed about the whole thing to be honest. I don't mind buying a light if I was able to figure out how to fix the second one. If I am unable to figure it out, the old one will be on ebay shortly. While it is completely functional, the adjuster will not operate from the trunk. You'd have to get in behind the light assembly and turn the dial. I'll be replacing the silicone as well so it remains a sealed unit. You better take my advice and never force that adjuster at anytime or you'll be looking at a busted headlight adjustment screw. That may very well have happened to me--I just didn't know it until I got it out. The parts are all plastic and very brittle and cheap. I imagine they are so brittle because they have been so close to the light and heat. I don't know for sure.
     
  18. hotcello

    hotcello Formula Junior

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    #18 hotcello, Dec 19, 2007
    they are just poorly made, Cheap plastic that has nothing to do with the heat. Mine came brand new and somehow I bump in to it with my knife while cutting the sides it cracked. "bump not hit" Be very careful with that when you put it in this time, it might break if you breath too hard on it. Good Luck
     
  19. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #19 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
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    Okay, I've got it all together and let me tell you, that's some tricky ****. If you even bump that adjustment knob, you're toast. Have you ever played the game operation? If you're good at operation then you have a chance at being a good light installer. The tolerances of the light bracket screws and the holes is absolutely incredibly small. The margin for error is just damn scarey. One mistake, and you will bust your screw, literally. It is twice as hard to put these in as it is to get them out--true for a few things in life I suppose.

    Pictures of the finished job. I'm very happy, and no screws, nuts or washers left over!!! I'm so pleased I'll be buying another light for the other side. You can see why too. Oh, I won't be installing it unless they want some obscene number to do it of course. Have a looksie and let me know if you have any q's. It is just too much time with your hands in very difficult areas for too long. If I had a lift, it would have been a lot easier.

    Cheers~

    Pic 1 & 2: New on the left, old on the right (old has no black insulator on it), also the new one came with everything including bulbs and an ignitor.

    Pic 3: The dreaded adjustment screw (f-in piece of x#%&*).

    Pic 4:The new ignitor--don't mess with this thing when things are running or you could be toast!

    Pic 5: Bumper with spacers to maintain the correct spacing between bumper and body

    Pic 6 & 7: The new light (lights off and lights on)

    Pic 8: The old...

    Man am I happy with the new one.
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  20. Rubino

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    #20 Rubino, Dec 19, 2007
    Looks great. What a major undertaking. You have more patience than I my good Sir.... I would need to post a pic of the old headlight with the familiar blast pattern of a 12 ga shotgun blast in the middle of the lens. :)

    Hope the new unit gives years of trouble free service.
     
  21. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #21 brokenarrow, Dec 20, 2007
    It's a pretty frustrating deal, no doubt. I've spoke with Ferrari today and have ordered the right headlight too. They look so damn good that I just can't leave that crappy one in there. I should have it early next week sometime. I'll probably do it next weekend, or, if the price is right, let Ferrari do it. I'll keep you guys posted. Once you do it, I'm sure you could cut the time in half the second time around. My compressor will do the work this time, that's for sure.

    The car takes on a much better newer look. Those old lights look weathered and tired with all that crap in them.

    I'll be much happier now, just a lot poorer.
     
  22. masar

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    #22 masar, Dec 22, 2007
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    I tried to get inside of headlight according Ken´s method. I did it, its possible. I think its more safer than trying to separate front plastic glass cover. But of course its not fully accessible to clean (but almost 90%). So for those who are upset by the dirt inside of headlight, solution realy exists but its crazy job. If you can live with current light - do not try it.If you are "easy to explode" person - do not try it. If you can easily buy new one - do not try it and buy one. But if you think about it always when look at your car and do not want to spend money for new without trying, you can try it but be ready for possible damage. I used sharp knife and flat srewdriver as support. Problem is that aprox. 1/4 is not accessible, so after 3/4 is done by knife, for rest you have to use power. Its crazy job, took me 2 hours splitted into 2 days since i had to stop always - i was getting mad and i was about to destroy light so i had to stop and give myself brake :))

    Picture is attached. Good luck.
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  23. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #23 brokenarrow, Dec 22, 2007
    Damn! Look at you, Petr. I do not know how you got that thing separated because at least 30% of that housing is NOT accessible with a knife. Can you tear telephone books with your bare hands? I would have cut my finger off. Petr is right; do not attempt this unless you are crazy and have a ton of time on your hands and don't mind risk losing a finger.

    I spent an hour on mine and threw in the towel as I couldn't get it to move at all. Knowing this, I just ordered the right light. I want to do it as the process is still fresh in my head. Also, I have covered the breathing hose with some micro cloth and tar tape. The hose can still breathe, just filtered air now.

    I will tell you the new one looks absolutely fantastic. I should have bought them right when I bought the car. It costs...
     
  24. masar

    masar Formula 3

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    #24 masar, Dec 22, 2007
    Yes, you right. Aprox. 30% is not accessible so after you separate 70% by knife, you have to use power and step by step together with flat srewdriver its possible to separate. But its realy crazy job. I was totaly hopeless in begining and if i would not see Ken`s picture thats its realy possible, i would stop after 10 minutes.....
     
  25. hotcello

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    #25 hotcello, Dec 23, 2007
    Good to hear that you guys did it. Yes, it was so dificult that the tech that was going to install for me say no to doing it. I flew all the way from New York to San Fran before the car was delivered and did it in the hotel room in one night. There were thousands of those gray rubbery stuff left over at the hotel room, I wonder what the cleaning lady was thinking next morning when seh saw the mess.
    you really have to split it open with a sharp knife and hold the open hole with a flat head screw driver and just keep going. Make sure you put a strong enough silicon when you put it back and remember to clean off the old stuff as much as you can so non of the rubber dust will fall in to the lense cover when you go and put it back on.
     
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