Cooling system overhaul

Easiest way to drain is via the twin pipes under the battery - there is a steel panel bolted to the car you can just unbolt, and there are the pipes.

I would replace every hose section with either Silicone sections or Gates Green-Stripe with strong ABA (or better) hose clamps. A radiator cap you just toss and replace with a Stant or OEM unit rated for the correct BAR pressure.

To remove the radiator, you'll probably want to remove the bumper, hood, grille, and front valence. It 'might' be done without valence removal, but since you're also doing new hoses you'll want easy access to the bottom of the radiator and the pipes that go to/from it. Radiator removal is fairly simple with the valence out of the way - there are bolts on the BOTTOM of the unit that connect the radiator to the A/C condenser unit and the car frame. I'm assuming the temp sending unit you're referring to is the fan switch threaded into the bottom of the radiator? You'll want to replace that as well with a new Bosch unit for an Audi/VW rated for 185 Deg. F.....

Your cooling system is mostly aluminum, so I would definitely NOT just pour 100% pure water in it - you'll have internal oxidation that could be VERY bad for the car.

 

If you were just working on the radiator I would not remove the front valence... but I think you will find it much easier if you remove the inner fender well, and the lower valence... it is removed by undoing the bolts that hold it on from the inside ... not a fun thing to do. the last one is right by the wheel arch... and is a bastard to get at.

Once you have the valence off, its simple to remove the ac condenser, then un bolt the two hoses, bottom first then take the top off. then jack the car up from the back... voila you'll have coolant all over. I flushed the system at the same time and ran the hoses unto a large bucket to catch it all.

You can take the radiator out with out taking the valence off, but putting it back in is more difficult... very tight. make sure you keep the rubber grommits as they keep the radiator from moving around in its mounts....

pretty easy to do really, just takes time. getting the hoses under the plenum is difficult with out taking the plenum off, but again that is pretty easy... you generally dont loose any gas from the injectors...

I always use watter wetter... better to be safe than sorry.

 

You may already be well aware of this, but just to be sure, be very careful w.the rad and working around it, esp turning a wrench! Those fins are fragile!

 

Hi Richard,

I just did my 77 cooling system. Gates gren stripe hose is available from Napa as are "constant torque clamps, at $5 each).

a fellow chatter, (luckydynes???) has a hose kit for sale in the adds section and his marine clamps look even better than the constant torque ones from napa.
FWIF, 3/4 coolant hose is a serious major *****, (read-too small) to get on the recovery tank and engine nipple, i think 7/8ths would be a much better choice, it sure does the trick for the crankcase vent system.
Others have suggested installing a "flush T" in the coolant hose to-from the heater that is sprouting from the pipe under the front access panel - this sounds like a less messy way to dump the coolant, next time.
Look verrry closely at the aluminum coolant pipes as you clean them up for re-use. I had a very fine pinhole rubbed through at the crank pulley and a near disaster, rub through at the pipe by the filter mount bolt, next to the front intake manifold bolt. Allow time to get them welded up by a pro.
When refitting the pipes and hoses, mark the pipes where you want the hose to end. In particular, you need at least one and one half "hose clamp widths" past the bead on the pipe. It is easy to loose track of how far the pipe is into the hose while you are trying to arrainge pipe clearance from bolts, nuts and other, potentially damaging things. YOU GOTTA HAVE CLEARANCE. Sometimes you can attach the hose coupler piece onto the pipe and use the pipe with the hose attached to force the hose onto the radiator or another hard to reach piece.

PRESSURE CHECK THE SYSTEM WHILE IT IS UP IN THE AIR AND EVERYTHING IS ACESSIBLE, WHEN TIGHT, WARM IT UP AND retighten the clamps, and CHECK AGAIN. Sorry, i usually don't shout. (ask me why i shout

In addition to the water pump gasket, you might want to get the o ring that goes between the lower thermostat housing and the block, because as you loosen the water pump, the housing will get loose and this o ring will be loose, too.

Don't be tempted to skip the thermostat, o ring and gasket, particularly if you are curently enduring slow warm ups. I changed mine and was plesantly pleased at the rapid warm up of the coolant and the proper running temperature of about 190 F. Previously it took a lot of miles to bring the temp up and it stabilized at about 165-170 F. The oil took for ever untill i installed an oil thermostat - but that is another story.

Definitely do the distilled water. I think the water wetter is worth the few bucks, as is phosphate free coolant.

If you are going to yank the rad, check the fans. if in doubt, either overhaul them, replace them if you are a purist; or skip the marginal stock stuff and install a couple of 12 inch spalls.

I have no experience with Nick's killer pump and have no doubt that it is a superior pump, but unless you live in a hot climate or track the car, the stock stuff will likely suffice, particularly since you will be inthere doing belt changes every 30k or 5 years anyway. If you are flush, it would be a nice upgrade, but i would go with heater hoses and radiator preventative maintenance first.

This is sure a lot of verbiage generated by my first major, hope this helps,

chris

 

There are threads somewhere regarding removing the valence (front spoiler) - there are a row of bolts along the inner seam that attach the valence to the front quarter-panels, seven per side if I recall correctly. Once you find, and then remove these bolts, the valence slides out toward the front of the car like a desk drawer - well, sorta. You WILL need help to coax the spoiler off, as well as help with the bolts and whatnot.

 

Does everyone pretty much agree on the Gates Green Line Hose?

silicone is a good alternative if you want to add some color or you could get black silicone but some people may not care for the shine (not as flat black looking as rubber)



What about buying the hoses from the Ferrari dealer?

only if you have too much money

 

Hi Richard,

I guess the stuff in the adds is just fuel hose, but i would still ask him for the hose clamp source so you could get those spiffy marine clamps, or you could go with the constant torque clamps from napa.

Almost every thread i've seen on cooling system work recommends the green stripe hose, also from napa in 3 foot lengths. Buying from ferrari will probably cost 5-10 times as much as the napa stuff.

Doing the fuel filler, cross over, evaporative and supply hoses is very cheap insurance. I think a lot of ferrari fires are caused by leaking hoses.

hth,
chris

 

Excellent advice and watch ALL these areas (plus alternator and water pump pulley) for inteference during reinstallation .. think I wrapped a piece of hose around the outside of one of the pipes just to make sure it didn't rub thru where the pipe goes down over the bell housing.

Also it's not me that has the silicone hose kits.

Plenty of excellent advice here . .. good luck.

Sean

 

Sorry, have not checked in... yes the valence is the spoiler etc... the wheel wells fiberglass cover has to come out... if they do? I cant remember, they may be riveted in, if so dont sweat it... but it makes a huge help with more room to work. after that its very strait forward ...

 

I got both the Blue and Red Silicon 90's

I used the Blue, , I have the Red left over.. (hint hint)
PM me.


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I've no idea what these silicone hoses from the usual sources used here cost but you may try a company called Nashville Rubber. They do silicone hoses and I've used them for my jetskiis. The folks there are very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

If it's the horizontal fuel tank strap causing problems and you think it may continue to do so in the future you might consider removing it and leaving it off. The Euro cars only have a vertical strap for both tanks. The second horizontal strap may be some overkill due to a U.S. regulation of some kind. Certainly two straps must be a safer more secure way to hold the tanks in but it may, in reality, be a non-issue.

 

That is common. If it has not worn through, make sure it doesn't touch anything when you re-install it. Some people even put a piece of hose over the part that likes to rub "just in case" to proect it in the future.

If it looks dangerously thin, it can be repaired by a welding shop. No biggie. Needs to be someone that can weld aluminum. Probably cost you $10. One of mine was repaired by a previous owner.

Now is an excellent time to slap in a new set of timing belts/tensioners. Keep in mind that the tension on the timing belts will appear different at different times in the rotation of the engine due to the varying load of the cams. Put a socket on the big bolt on the balancer and turn the engine over and watch what they do. There are some good timing belt threads. Yes, many people will say that you are better off to do a full major rather than just timing belts, but if the timing belts are old and you are in there anyway, it is about $150 to do the timing belts and tensioners. Money well spent for peace of mind.

As for the hoses, I prefer the NAPA rubber hose. First of all, it looks OEM. Second, it is stiffer and easier to wiggle onto the pipes than silicone because it doesn't collapse. (Silicone is so soft that when you try to push it onto a tube, it collapses. You need a lot of lube.) The original hose lasted 20+ years and so will this NAPA hose. I had to use some LONG silicone on the Mondial because I couldn't get rubber hose that long (the Mondial has flexible hose from front to back unlike the 308 which has hard tube) and it was a pain to work with.

As for the short little hoses under the plenum which really suck, they are actually easy as cake once the water pump is out and you can do them from the end of the engine. You DO NOT need to remove the plenum if you are taking out the water pump.

I did all the hoses on both of my cars last year (Mondial QV and carb 308) and it was pretty straightforward. Just be patient, don't get frustrated....take a break when the thing pisses you off (it will!) and don't skip one because it's too hard. Do them all and you will know that the car is good for another 20 years.

I will admit...I have a lift and it makes all the difference. Some of those hoses would really suck doing it on jackstands. I have said this a hundred times and I'll say it again: lifts are not that expensive and if you work on your car, it will be the best tool you ever owned and you will never ever ever regret buying one.

Birdman

 

Where did you get long silicone hose? Was it special order? All the places I've seen seem to limit length to one meter.

 

I just got thru doing this job on my 328. Looks like you are at least half way thru the job with the radiator and some of the pipes out of the car. For me to get the radiator out I removed the front aluminum grill, lower spoiler and the front hood, making it real easy to access the radiator. The fans came out and then the brackets for the radiator were removed making it easy to lift the rad out. I also had a wear mark on the aluminum pipe on the right/pax side of the engine. A friend that does aluminum fixed it and pressure tested it for a 12 pack of beer. Sent the radiator to a shop where they boiled it then ran rods down all the cooling tubes to make sure they were all clear then reassembled it and pressure tested it. Cost for the service $90.00. I went to the local hardware store (ACE) and got some self-adhesive foam tape to fit around the radiator to close the air gaps. I believe offical Ferrari foam costs over $100.00 the stuff I got was $15.00 and looks OEM.I used Gates hoses (1 5/8" I.D. x36") for the pipes/radiator connections and 3/4" x 15" for the smaller hose from the expansion tank to the aluminum pipe by the oil filter. And "while I was there" I replaced the thermostat/gasket, expansion tank cap (0.9 bar) and the termoswitch for the fans, all these parts were purschased from Dennis McCann, which seemed to have the best prices. All my clamps were in good shape so I cleaned then on a wire wheel and resued them. To refill, I had the front of the car slighty higher than the rear and had the vent screws on the thermostat housing and for the radiator open when filling (heater valves all the way open as well) used distilled water and coolant rated for aluminum radiators plus added a bottle of that "water wetter". slowly filled the system until coolant started to come out of the vent screw on the radiator, then closed that screw and continued filling thinking that coolant would come out of the thermostat vent, it never did, the expansion tank filled up before any coolant came out, so I closed that one then started the car and let it warm up until the thermostat opened and the fans came on, at which point I opened the radiator vent screw and bled more air while the car was running. Shut the car off, checked for any leaks at the hose connections ect. and then started the car up again and did a second bleed. After putting over 400 miles on the car since this job not sure if the "water wetter" works or not. Bottle says it makes systems run up to 20 degrees cooler but giving the "accuracy" of the Ferrai gagues its had to tell. I do notice the needle reads a little more to the left than before, so who knows. There were no problems with my cooling system, but after 20 years I felt it could'nt hurt to overhaul the system, for piece of mind if nothing else. Good luck with the rest of your project and enjoy the ride.
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