things are getting bad

Come on... really? That's just insane.

 

Pictures of your friend with a big smile next to his car would suffice.

 

That happens form time to time even in good times.

Do you have any idea how many people are leveraged to the eyeballs to get into one of these things?

Don't think for a second just because a guy is riding around in a new $300k exotic he has something. Good chance all he has is a lot of debt.

Not that many years ago almost every car was sold for cash. In the new economy credit cards are King. Thats how we got to where we are today.

 

I for one, don't believe it. That's way below wholesale.

 

so very few people use credit responsibly...that's the prob really. but its always there taunting u to use it isn't it? Tis why i stay away from using any at all if i don't have to. but yah wow, 170k for nearly a brand new 430 SPYDER is nuts...

 

Agreed, though the owner/seller may have got screwed. If he had bothered trying, he could've got more from another dealer. My guess is the broker smelleD blood in the water and "stole" the car... There's going to be a lot of these stories coming out though, but they'll always be a "I heard..."

 

I agree. A dealer would pay more than that. Even Ebay has them bidding for more. If he wanted money quickly, he would have taken it to a Ferrari dealer and gotten a cashier's check for more. Something we don't know about that deal.

 

Hello? What part of that we are in a major global recession that will impact everyone and every luxury product don't you guys get? Did you see retail numbers released today? No one is buying much of anything. If you think any of this sounds bad, wait 3 months.

 

dealers would pay more...I have heard this just wait 3 months now for the last year!

Say fenzoman, what dealership do work for?

 

jims been talking about it for several days now... 430spiders 170, 599's 260...

 

Its really tough time nowaday.

 

And again dealer would pay more..I just looked at the transactions and using internet MMR on a MY03 360 Coupe for example this morning for another thread and if you look in April 2008 there is a ruff 20k mile car that sold for 15k less then one with the same miles and ruff also in september 2008...the wholesale on the MY03 Coupe went up $15k in 5 months and in a worse time when cars are dropping..Hmmm... seems there more going on...

04/03/08 MANHEIM Regular $88,000 27,743 Below SILVER 8G A No
09/23/08 DALLAS Regular $103,000 21,359 Below 8G Yes

And no MY06 spiders f430 transactions in the last 60 days..in other words no 430 spiders have sold on Manheim or been offered, only one through OVE...Only 2 MY07 spiders:

06/12/08 MANHEIM Regular $261,000 907 Avg YELLOW 8G A No
05/29/08 MANHEIM Regular $260,000 206 Avg RED 8G 6 No

And no MY08's ferraris at all...

From July 08 to October 08 in the transaction on the MY04's Gallardo's there is $41,000 change to the postive..in other words cars on the wholesale ware $41,000 cheaper in July on the wholesale..that huge!!! Its on the internet MMR!!

07/31/08 CHICAGO Lease $70,000 7,480 Below YELLOW 10G A No
10/03/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $111,500 7,702 Avg Silver 10C A Yes

 

Times are tough.However I find that hard to believe on a spider

 

Hey if you guys know anyone let me know

 

if we know anyone...what?

 

I don't believe it for half a second. A guy who can afford that kind of money to spend for a car and buys a Ferrari, has some idea that he's getting screwed for at least $30.000. even in today's market. Even if the broker did find a "live one" Why would he not sell it for true market value and make more money? Just a fish story!

 

fish stroy? you think? read the thread. by the way, napolis is one of the more well heeled members on f-chat and clearly has no horse in the race.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217717

 

It's hard to accept reality. Try to sell a 430, dealers will not even put them on their floorplan (the used dealer from SD is dreaming and wishing for the good old times.....) They will wholesale and I have seen prices for 06's in the 180 range and 07's for 200k and I am talking Spiders.

More to come, we are not out of the woods yet (our economy) and there are too many used Ferraris with no buyers, except maybe for cash. Try to finance or lease right now, you will have to put down a fortune.

Party is over for a quite some time.

 

Certainly the economy is bad, but I get a kick out of all the non-owning Ferrari fanatics who come on FChat and profess to know the "true" market. I just purchased my Scuderia last week and was offered financing and lease terms in the 6% to 6.5% range. Short and long term financing. So, where do you get your knowledge from on financing and leasing?

 

Though I just posted the MMR from the wholesale, there are NOT a ton of cars being wholesaled, as you could see, and the wholesale has gone up even for Gallardos...hmmm..

I myself want the prices down...My margins stay the same, and as prices go down the more buyers com out...so your argument makes no since..but the MMR show true selling prices at the auction...and the numbers have clearly gone up on the wholesale...dealers would be better off going to the sale with there cars..

 

I couldn't agree with you more....

 

It's still a confusing time out there:

I have had my bank come to me and offer me up $100k at 4.95% for any car loan I might want.

Same bank will do me 500K at 5.5% for 15 year home mortgage.

My bank manager has told me that I he has no problem loaning money to people with very low debt/income ratios and good fair issacs.

Not bragging-my income/wealth levels would not even register compared to the average owner on F-Chat. But the market is now looking only at safe loan risks. So this will reduce the available pool of buyers for cars like we are talking about. Result-We will see lowering prices across board for cars. I was offered a 06 Gallardo E-gear with 10k miles for $110K I will counter with 99,950 and probably get it.

 

Think I'm one of the people you're describing Joe?

I posted this on Monday. So far I've put 4 people in touch with this dealer who BTW is a sponsor here.

The wholesale market for modern Ferrari's has collapsed. This weekend Wholesale Low Miles 599's have fallen to 260K and Low mileage 430 Spyders have fallen to 170K.

Now before the chorus screams BS! Show me and I'll but every one! I'm being Dead ****ing serious about these prices. If you are a REAL buyer and willing to buy in cash this Monday paying a touch over wholesale, (They usually try for +10 but may be willing to deal) PM me and I'll give you a phone # but don't waste my time. I have no financial interest what so ever in these cars or the Wholesaler nor will get anything if you make a deal. The wholesale network has MANY for sale with different colors and options that really need to be sold now. As a final aside it wouldn't amaze me if the market for these cars falls futher in a short time.

 

change afoot jim...even in greenwich! btw, lee holman told me a funny stroy of a recent drive in the blue ridge mountains in his jim rose car. he arrives home to a message from you indicating you and your daughter were in the mts doing some horseback riding where you heard or saw lee blasting off in the distance.

"that jim is everywhere!"...lee really got a kick out of tell that story.

best,

pcb