Restoration of 1120004

[EMILIO]

Joe,
good infos , tks

i knew there was also one factory optional exhaust for LP to and that it was not exactly the same as the s onwards
but i never seen one in real life or good pics of it


from this pic it looks to me even the canisters are slightly different from later ANSA exhaust (i would say smaller diameter)

about the internal secondary tubes i have one thing that not many know about:
in fact the smaller concentrical tubes were on countach ANSA sport mufflers S-onwards, but not on all of them

ANSA made smaller changes (improvments and internal modification according to use of unleaded fuel etc..) on the countach sport exhausts since they start to make tehm
the ones i provided AND all of the ANSAs made in last... 7 or so years are made without the concentric tubes, i think they have a sort of internal megaphones ( like your former black LP exhaust looks to have in this pic)

[2NA]

Originally Posted by ilconservatore

Another question - are fuel and oil cooler lines braided steel (like modern aeroquip line) or braided cloth? I've found pics of braided cloth used on vapor lines, oil breather unit, etc, but I can't make a definite decision on the cooler and fuel lines. Our originals were heavily modified, so we're unsure how much is original. is there a source for original style hose ends?

Fuel and oil cooler lines were wrapped in braided steel. They are similar to the modern stuff but are zinc coated steel braid rather than the stainless steel we see now. The finish is typically a dull gray (frequently with a bit of rust here and there).

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by joe sackey

Therefore, if the restorer of 1120004 wants to be faithful, this is what is needed. Since 1120004 was delivered to Italy, it is quite likely it had the sport system in place from day one.

At any rate, as Emilio has already suggested, it is an unforgivable sin to run a Countach via anything but an open exhaust!

unfortunatly i think ANSA has no more the molds for this old LP 400 sport unit ....or may be they are hidden somewhere (as the P300 were.. )
the easier (and may be only) way to have them made the proper LP400 sport unit is lend them an old one

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by joe sackey

Emilio: the very earliest LP400 did in fact come with EITHER the muffler box (depending on where the car was headed, for example Switzerland), or a sport exhaust as shown below. The unit on 1120110 is the original item, and it is different from the the units that you are providing for the later Countachs. If you look closely at the tips, you'll see that there are no internal secondary tubes as you see inside the tips of the units Ansa made for the later cars. This is strictly unique to LP400, as far as I have seen. I have archived images from 1974 and 1975 showing same, and in fact even the 1975 and 1976 Walter Wolf cars used this same type unit.

Joe,
did you happen to know if the later LP400 cars (let's say 77 cars) came with the "later" ANSA sport units (as the one i provide)?

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by ilconservatore

Ashtray lid should be black also, without the bull logo?

I think so, judging by 1120002 and 1120008 of course.

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by ilconservatore

I never knew that article existed...will try to locate it. 004 currently has a black gate but I have no reason to believe its correct. There were details that were changed on this car for no apparent reason. As found, it looks like this:

I can't get my hands on it at the moment to inspect if its plastic, painted metal or plated but I'll make a note to check it. Do the fasteners even match up?

Shaun: Over the last 25 years, I have collected every Countach article written since the LP500 debuted at the Geneva Salon in 1971. Idont have them all, but clearly, I have most of those published in English. The early issues are a wealth of information as to the exact specification of the cars back in the day, before people got their hands on them and started changing everything!

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by ilconservatore

This is just a big can of worms I've opened, eh? I had planned on having the exhaust position duplicated from 002. Since both cars shared the same seats and roof vents, etc, it seems natural. This would also include the black mesh filler above the tailpipes. See how it is fully open, rather than just the middle as on 010? Also it seems the edges of the black panel are taller on 002, if only by a little?

I think you have 'license' to go with what's on 1120002 as far as the exhaust heat shield is concerned, or the standard item. Judging by the fact that your 1120004 is the only other LP400 that has the same style seats as those in 1120002, and given the fact that 1120004 is the very next chassis number, I'm going to go with the reasonable assumption that the 2 cars were built in tandem, so the original details will likely be the same. Not guaranteed, but very very likely.

Ergo the old-style "Lamborghini" badge on the rear panel, which came on 1120004 anyway.

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by EMILIO

Joe,
good infos , tks

i knew there was also one factory optional exhaust for LP to and that it was not exactly the same as the s onwards
but i never seen one in real life or good pics of it


from this pic it looks to me even the canisters are slightly different from later ANSA exhaust (i would say smaller diameter)

about the internal secondary tubes i have one thing that not many know about:
in fact the smaller concentrical tubes were on countach ANSA sport mufflers S-onwards, but not on all of them

ANSA made smaller changes (improvments and internal modification according to use of unleaded fuel etc..) on the countach sport exhausts since they start to make tehm
the ones i provided AND all of the ANSAs made in last... 7 or so years are made without the concentric tubes, i think they have a sort of internal megaphones ( like your former black LP exhaust looks to have in this pic)

Yes the canisters are smaller, thinner and longer. Sound: BASSO SUPREMO!

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by EMILIO

Joe,
did you happen to know if the later LP400 cars (let's say 77 cars) came with the "later" ANSA sport units (as the one i provide)?

The very first image that I posses that I can date with the Ansa sport unit that became popular with the dual-cylinder tips (as you have) is dated from 1980, at an ILOC meeting on an LP400S. Its hard to say if its a Series 1 because its a direct rear shot of a black car.

Personally, I think this was Ansa's replacement of the original unit.

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by joe sackey

Yes the canisters are smaller, thinner and longer. Sound: BASSO SUPREMO!

sound remained the same

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by joe sackey

The very first image that I posses that I can date with the Ansa sport unit that became popular with the dual-cylinder tips (as you have) is dated from 1980, at an ILOC meeting on an LP400S. Its hard to say if its a Series 1 because its a direct rear shot of a black car.

this is my car with still EE plates on (from ILR...tks Glen!)
are you sure this image is not older than 1980?

Originally Posted by joe sackey

Personally, I think this was Ansa's replacement of the original unit.

yes, very likely
as told to me by ANSA guys the exhaust were internally modified some times even later

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by EMILIO

sound remained the same

The sound of 1120110 was different to the later sport exhausts I had 1121034 & 1121036.

Much deeper.

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by EMILIO

this is my car with still EE plates on (from ILR...tks Glen!)
are you sure this image is not older than 1980?

I dont know about that particular image.

As I said already, the oldest image I personally possess showing this type of unit dates from 1980. Its always possible the unit was in fact made earlier, say 1979. But that's all I have.

I will say for sure that ALL the period images of LP400 with a sport exhaust showed the old-style tips. I'm not sure exactly when the new-style tips were applied to the LP400S.

[raymondQV]

Emilio's car comes from Switzerland (and Hell he got it for a good price), the former owner have been members of the swiss club since the beginning but we have no more contact, I could try to find out more about it.

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by raymondQV

Emilio's car comes from Switzerland (and Hell he got it for a good price), the former owner have been members of the swiss club since the beginning but we have no more contact, I could try to find out more about it.

tks Raymond

anyone that bought one countach and miura before 2005 had them for a good price compared to 2008 prices....i can tell you good DD were going for 100 milioni lira italiana in 2000 or so and there were many on the market at any given time ( slighlty over 50k euro) ....problem was i was 22 and could not buy one at the moment

where i had really luck was to found a really good-original one for the price since i had seen lesser car for more money at the time of purchase

btw: talkign about lost trains.....do you remember the LP cars sold for 90k euros or so in 2005 ?

[raymondQV]

Friend of mine bought his LP400 for 90k CHF in 2000 at an auction in Basel.

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by raymondQV

Friend of mine bought his LP400 for 90k CHF in 2000 at an auction in Basel.

those were times!

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by raymondQV

Friend of mine bought his LP400 for 90k CHF in 2000 at an auction in Basel.

I know someone who purchased an LP400 for $90k US in late 2006.

[EMILIO]

Originally Posted by LC3929

Great thread started by you ! I like threads concerning such details... I am less interested in the 5000th photo of a red Countach S or Anniversario, simply not my field of interest.

i like both and also some driving discussions, pros and cons and opinions

only pics is boring but only detail discussions would be the same

[ralfabco]

Originally Posted by EMILIO

those were times!

You may soon have another opportunity !

During 2004, I missed a well restored $75K 250PF coupe. Bad mistake, to pick up the BB instead.