Amelia

[bushwhacker]

Just saw the film Amelia. Hilary Swank played a convincing role of this American hero and I learned much about her life as an aviator and person I did not know before. The film was a little slow and flat but is worth catching. The cinematography was very well done but a little more detail and facts in the script would have helped give it a little more life. Always a treat to see a Lockheed Electra.

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by bushwhacker

Just saw the film Amelia. Hilary Swank played a convincing role of this American hero and I learned much about her life as an aviator and person I did not know before. The film was a little slow and flat but is worth catching. The cinematography was very well done but a little more detail and facts in the script would have helped give it a little more life. Always a treat to see a Lockheed Electra.

I wonder if I should post this comment but I will try to put it in context. In 1949 I had a long conversation with Paul Mantz and we talked about many aviation notables, one of whom was Amelia Earhardt. Comments that I got from him (and several others) labeled her as a poor pilot . Poor technique and a lack of good decisions when she was flying. She wrecked an Electra and a Vega in her excursions and did not impress those with whom I spoke. I am not attempting to put down an American icon but I simply report what I learned. It seems that it goes in hand with her decision NOT to learn Morse code before her trans-world flight attempt.
Switches

[solofast]

I had heard some of the same comments, but if the press makes you out a great pilot, then you certainly must be. Of course, until reality reaches up and bites you in the butt and you find yourself in deep ka ka...

Remember the old saw...Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous, but to a even greater extent than the sea it is intolerant of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect....

[dinodan]

Hindsight is 20/20, of course, but it has always seemed to me that to take a life-or-death chance on finding that tiny speck of land that is Howland Island with the primitive navigation techniques of the day and a very marginal fuel supply was pretty foolhardy.

[aseweepay]

Originally Posted by Bob Parks

I wonder if I should post this comment but I will try to put it in context. In 1949 I had a long conversation with Paul Mantz and we talked about many aviation notables, one of whom was Amelia Earhardt. Comments that I got from him (and several others) labeled her as a poor pilot . Poor technique and a lack of good decisions when she was flying. She wrecked an Electra and a Vega in her excursions and did not impress those with whom I spoke. I am not attempting to put down an American icon but I simply report what I learned. It seems that it goes in hand with her decision NOT to learn Morse code before her trans-world flight attempt.
Switches

Bob,

I will second your comments. Years ago when I was going through my Private ground school, it was taught by a proud member of the 99s etc....she knew a lot about female pilots and was very proud of women fliers. One day we talked about Amelia, and she said she was a horrible pilot, couldn't land worth a darn etc..... Our instructor was disappointed that many of the "better" female pilots have been forgotten in history.... Like you, I am not trying to "slam" her, just passing along what I was told...

FWIW, here is a link to a documentary which gives a little more info on other female aviators. I have no affiliation with it, just think it sounds interesting.

http://www.ragwingderby.com/noframes...=homepage.html

Aseweepay

[bushwhacker]

Originally Posted by Bob Parks

I wonder if I should post this comment but I will try to put it in context. In 1949 I had a long conversation with Paul Mantz and we talked about many aviation notables, one of whom was Amelia Earhardt. Comments that I got from him (and several others) labeled her as a poor pilot . Poor technique and a lack of good decisions when she was flying. She wrecked an Electra and a Vega in her excursions and did not impress those with whom I spoke. I am not attempting to put down an American icon but I simply report what I learned. It seems that it goes in hand with her decision NOT to learn Morse code before her trans-world flight attempt.
Switches

Hey Bob, thanks for the info,
I had heard of some of the things you mentioned. Wow, they showed in the film the absence of Morris Code not being used but didn't go into detail that she and her navigator refused to learn it.....pretty foolish in a day when modern day navigation was in it's infancy. In one of the scenes they showed Amelia dumping everything from the Electra including the life raft to lighten it up.
Well, being a mediocre pilot and the bad choices she made or not, I admire her passion, guts and commitment.
It looks as if her husband was a master of promotion but the choices were Amelia's. Hopefully, one of these days we will know the real truth behind her disappearance. RIP Amelia.

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by Bob Parks

I wonder if I should post this comment but I will try to put it in context. In 1949 I had a long conversation with Paul Mantz and we talked about many aviation notables, one of whom was Amelia Earhardt. Comments that I got from him (and several others) labeled her as a poor pilot . Poor technique and a lack of good decisions when she was flying. She wrecked an Electra and a Vega in her excursions and did not impress those with whom I spoke. I am not attempting to put down an American icon but I simply report what I learned. It seems that it goes in hand with her decision NOT to learn Morse code before her trans-world flight attempt.
Switches

No value in going into the details of our conversation with Mantz but he had the opinion that Amelia's husband's quest for publicity was the driving force that drove her to do what she did and that she was not comfortable about it sometimes. He spoke of Jackie Cochran as being a very good and capable pilot but let her woman's intuition get the best of her in the Bendix Trophy race when she held on to her drop tanks longer than she was supposed to and got beaten. He also mentioned that several young pilots got killed while filming " Blaze Of Noon" trying to out spin one another in the Travelaires in the opening scenes of the movie...also written by Gann.
We had to service and maintain the TBF and Widgeon that they were using in the movie that they were shooting at the airport and at nearby Anna Maria Key. The movie, " On An Island With You" was one that you never heard of , I'll bet. Esther Williams and Peter Lawford were in it along with a lot of fake palm trees.
Switches

[zygomatic]

One good reconstruction of Amelia's last hours suggests that poor navigation - essentially the lack of a purposeful error in her navigation - put Earhart and Noonan on a N/S line that was roughly that of Howland Island, but they could not determine whether they were North or South of the Island.

That, combined with the difficulties of early radio navigation aids and possibly Earhart's questionable radio nav skills led to their demise.

[donv]

They SHOULD make a movie about Jackie Cochran, but no one would believe it was a true story.

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by donv

They SHOULD make a movie about Jackie Cochran, but no one would believe it was a true story.

I agree. She was one of a kind and from what he said, Paul Mantz admired and respected her.
Switches

[TexasF355F1]

How much of what they used in the movie was based on facts known though?

And while I don't want you to spoil the ending, but did they create their own theory, or a theory that exists today?

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

How much of what they used in the movie was based on facts known though?

And while I don't want you to spoil the ending, but did they create their own theory, or a theory that exists today?

I just finished watching the discussion about Earhart's last flight and disappearance. Excellent and laid it on the line about her lack of preparation and "female intuition" that led her to disregard Noonan's directions in navigation.
Switches

[dinodan]

What are the opinions on the TIGHAR theory that they ended up on Nikumaroro (then Gardner Island)? Given its distance from Howland (roughly 400 miles), this would predicate a pretty substantial navigational error. It seems that the main evidence to support this is a skeleton (allegedly matching Earhart's description) that was found there in 1940 and hasn't been seen since.

[James_Woods]

Originally Posted by dinodan

What are the opinions on the TIGHAR theory that they ended up on Nikumaroro (then Gardner Island)? Given its distance from Howland (roughly 400 miles), this would predicate a pretty substantial navigational error. It seems that the main evidence to support this is a skeleton (allegedly matching Earhart's description) that was found there in 1940 and hasn't been seen since.

Ocean in that area much larger than tiny speck of island.

Bob, could you tell us some more about Paul Mantz? Was it he or Frank Tallman (Tall-Mantz Aviation partner) who was killed in filming Flight of the Phoenix?

Was there a contraversy about that (which I heard but don't want to mention unless somebody else has better information than I do)?

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by James_Woods

Ocean in that area much larger than tiny speck of island.

Bob, could you tell us some more about Paul Mantz? Was it he or Frank Tallman (Tall-Mantz Aviation partner) who was killed in filming Flight of the Phoenix?

Was there a contraversy about that (which I heard but don't want to mention unless somebody else has better information than I do)?

It was Mantz. I recall that he clipped the top of a dune. The autopsy showed that he had alcohol in his system. He was a nice guy and hung around and chatted with us while we worked on the airplane. Before actual filming started, he showed up one afternoon in a surplus TBF that he purchased in Norfolk and flew down to Sarasota with his mechanic. The torpedo bay doors were open and we assumed that they weren't working right but when he taxied in we could smell raw gasoline odors. There was a leaking gas heater fuel line in the torpedo bay from where the Navy had removed the heater and simply pinched the line off with a pair of pliers. It didn't bother Mantz or his mechanic but it sure bothered us and we immediately remedied the problem. We lacked the big equipment that we should have had to service the Grumman and we went through case after case of oil one quart at a time to top off the oil in the TBF. He didn't have much to do with the actors as I remember, stuck with the airplanes during the day and stayed by himself at night while the actress in the movie partied hard most evenings. That's another story. Peter Lawford was scared to death of the airplane and refused to do a scene where he was to taxi the airplane away from the camera and they had to use a stand in. I begged for the part but my price was too high.
Switches

[ea500guy]

Speaking of female aviators, has anyone read, "West with the Night"? It was written by an African bush pilot named Beryl Markham. She seemed to be the genuine article, but at any rate she was a fabulous writer.

[Tillman]

Originally Posted by ea500guy

Speaking of female aviators, has anyone read, "West with the Night"? It was written by an African bush pilot named Beryl Markham. She seemed to be the genuine article, but at any rate she was a fabulous writer.

Yep. That's well worth reading, and a window into a world that doesn't exist anymore.

[Bob Parks]

Originally Posted by Tillman

Yep. That's well worth reading, and a window into a world that doesn't exist anymore.

Agree ! I read it years ago and she remeinds me of St. Exupery.

[James_Woods]

I have seen the FAA archived film of the Mantz crash. This was the mockup of the so-called single boom craft they made out of the cargo plane.

It had these fake skids on it and indeed they just touched the top of the dune and the thing immediately broke it's back - thus the front part tumbling the engine and the occupant end over end.

I was told at the time that significant amount of alcohol was involved but didn't want to say without somebody else confirming.

The film itself does not show the plane landing...just the survivors crawling into the little oasis on foot.

[wbc]

I know its been brought up before, but I gotta put my vote in to somehow get Mr. Parks' fascinating aviation anecdotes and recollections documented and/or recorded. I have a feeling that the gems he shares with us on this forum are merely the tip of the iceberg. Any ideas?