Hard crash at Moroso...

DinoSteven · #1 11-22-2009, 07:55 PM

Hello,
I've been a FCA member for 25+ years and a Performance Driving Instructor for 15 or more. I've raced in amateur and professional series - NASCAR and SPEED World Challenge - and have finished in three 24 hour endurance races. I instructed 3 students at this weekend's FCA event in South Florida and they all learned and had fun. I use Nady communicators and when they work, they work well.

I suffered the hardest crash ever - as a passenger - destroying an F430 and still stumbled away from it. I think that the Club should invest in 'communicators' that would enable instructors to avoid what I suffered from - a student with "The Red Mist". We've all been there - anxious and confident, then forgetting our human frailty. Countless Tifosi and sports car enthusiasts have crashed hard and regretted it. I certainly have. We'll leave that for another thread. I was able to see my student's abilities ebb and flow as the tires' grip faded with heat. My Nady communicators worked well the day before but suffered from a broken microphone wire sometime on Saturday morning. I was unable to do more than gesture 'enough already' and 'we're done, the tires are overheated' with my hands and yell at him. I remember closing my visor and tightening my belts confident that we would not make another lap if his 'counter and recover'** skills were not superb. Had my communicators been working, I would have demanded that we pass through the pit lane and let them cool. I saw it coming and did what I could but didn't arrest the imminent crash destroying his car and causing quite a bit of pain - financial and physical.

Ouch. I'm sore as a MoFo.

Or, maybe as Club event administrators, they should DEMAND that every instructor have and use communicators.

Steven
246GT and 330 America
Those airbags are HOT and LOUD. My ears were ringing for 12 hours.

** Every bout of 'loose' is a demonstration of the TWO skills needed to pull out of a slide - Counter Steer and Recover. Everyone knows the former, many forget the latter. Countersteer without the recover and you end up on the same side of the track that the spin began. The spin stops only after the energy is dissipated via distance or concrete.

**Napolis** · #2 11-23-2009, 07:24 AM

If you seriously thought there was danger of crashing you should have punched him hard in the arm and gestured slow down with both hands palms flat, down and put on his right blinker.

If he didn't get the message you should have reached over and killed the engine.

**Simon^2** · #3 11-23-2009, 07:37 AM

Glad you are OK, Steven. Since you made no mention of the driver I assume he/she is ok.

Best to all involved...

**Otter** · #4 11-23-2009, 07:40 AM

[QUOTE=Napolis;1391469 you should have punched him hard in the arm and gestured slow down with both hands palms flat, down and put on his right blinker.

If he didn't get the message you should have reached over and killed the engine.[/QUOTE]

Jim, This is what you would have to do and more if I was ever able to take the P 4/5 for a spin,LOL Otter

**Nembo1777** · #5 11-23-2009, 07:44 AM

Hello Steve:

glad you are ok.

Derek Bell told me he once had to physically yank up the leg of a similar big ego small skill chap from the accelerator when he was obviously going to crash them in the old high speed esses at Moroso...there are far too many of these types who think they can drive it just because they can afford it...

You know the trick for the aches and pains now: get into a jacuzzi!

best regards,

Marc

Uomo360F1 · #6 11-23-2009, 07:53 AM

Steve, on the positive side, you were able to tell the story.

**absent** · #7 11-23-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nembo1777

Hello Steve:

glad you are ok.

Derek Bell told me he once had to physically yank up the leg of a similar big ego small skill chap from the accelerator when he was obviously going to crash them in the old high speed esses at Moroso...there are far too many of these types who think they can drive it just because they can afford it...

You know the trick for the aches and pains now: get into a jacuzzi!

best regards,

Marc

For me it was Tylenol 3 with Codeine AND a very hot bath.

HotShoe · #8 11-23-2009, 08:45 AM

Pain is a good teacher!

Some people unfortunately learn the hard way. Thank God no one was seriously injured.

I couldn't imagine being an instructor, no thank you!!!! You have to be both a little brave and crazy to get in that seat. Hopefully lessons like this won't someday eliminate track events or stop clubs from letting people drive in anything other than a parade.

Mitch Alsup · #9 11-23-2009, 09:51 AM

I end up using hand signals over vocal communications. Its faster for the driver to see the hands move and regbister what the DI wants than vocally--and there is no chance of battery or connector failure. (Less change of brain fade too) I came to this conclusion when a student would answer "yes" to every command and obey none of them. Over 5 years no-student has either ignored nor misobeyed these signals.

Hands flat--get ready to brake
Hands flat push down--start braking right now
point--follow the line
Fingers flip forward--add speed as you wish
Fists vertically --reposition hands on steering wheel 9-3

Sorry to hear about the 430

**WILLIAM H** · #10 11-23-2009, 10:33 AM

Scarey stuff. Glad to hear you are ok

I would definately have been more aggressive in getting him to pull in

SrfCity · #11 11-23-2009, 10:42 AM

Sorry to hear of this incident. Sounds like the hand signal thing is the answer for future. That'll be a nice owie for the owner as he'll need to eat that totaled car.

wise3 · #12 11-23-2009, 04:43 PM

Glad to hear you weren't seriously hurt, Steve.

Short of the audio system, I like the hand signals Mitch mentioned myself. He lists them just as I always used them. But they did result in a spin for my student and me once in the esses at the old Moroso track. The student said afterwards he thought palm down flat, lowering meant stand on the gas, not the brake. We all know what they mean, but I guess newbies may not. Hard to find a perfect system....

**hardtop** · #13 11-23-2009, 05:02 PM

I could never be an instructor. Occasionally I'm asked to help out newbies at club events even though all I can do is give some pointers. I am a really bad passenger and some newbies are really bad drivers with way too much testosterone. I don't like doing it.

I am concerned about the future of DE's with today's cars that are so frickin' fast yet have no more safety equipment than a Honda Fit. I had my 430 at Road America this summer, but I'm pretty careful with that car. On Friday, I had an instructor and listened carefully always mindful that his safety as well as mine and the car's was in my hands. The high speeds in the 430 at ROA and some other tracks certainly make me feel vulnerable without a harness and a roll cage. I fear with all the very fast cars available and the increasing popularity of DE's that deaths and injuries may increase to the point that insurance will be impossible to get on the part of operators.

Dave

solofast · #14 11-23-2009, 05:49 PM

I've pretty much stopped instructing for just this reason. You never know what you are going to get in terms of a student. Most are good and it is a great experience when you get to watch them "get it" and really start to turn on. Then there are ones who believe that just because they can afford a very fast car that they have the ability to drive it.

Sadly that is sometimes not the case and the lack of ability can still scare the you know what out of you if it ends well. If it ends badly you can hurt for months, as you will undoubtly find out.

And the statement above about cars being so much faster today is really true. Almost any serious car is so fast that if you put it on the track a cage is mandatory.

Now I only instruct for people who are recommended or I know and we do a lot of discussion before we ever get to the track on both signals and attitude. I've just gotten too old and had the crap scared out of me too many times to do it any other way.

**VisualHomage** · #15 11-24-2009, 12:00 PM

This is one of those things that are gifts in disguise, to the OP: you will forever change the way you instruct, at least in your safety regimen; you're wiser for the experience.

**darth550** · #16 11-24-2009, 12:11 PM

Perhaps one more thing to add to the checklist in the future, teach?

Glad you're ok.

**400iGuy** · #17 11-24-2009, 01:51 PM

[QUOTE=DinoSteven;139145882...... destroying an F430 [/QUOTE]

That's Steve sitting on the track probably having a word with the airbag

Al

**Ney** · #18 11-24-2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400iGuy

That's Steve sitting on the track probably having a word with the airbag

Al

Good thing there was plenty of tape on the car to protect it from those nasty stone chips that you get at the track!

SrfCity · #19 11-24-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400iGuy

That's Steve sitting on the track probably having a word with the airbag

Al

If that's the same crash then that's a (flawed) 360 not a 430. Those 360's are pretty hard to control once they break loose and the rear end wants to come around. Completely different story in a 430.

flyguyskt · #20 11-24-2009, 04:26 PM

ummm maybe im wrong but isnt that a 360?