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#1
03-29-2010, 09:32 PM
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Lancia Thema 8.32
So I was watching Top Gear this evening and they did a great piece on Lancia (I wish Top Gear devoted more time to classics as they did with this episode and the episode that led to Hammond purchasing a GT4). They deemed a Delta Thema 8:32 to be one of the 'great' Lancias of all time.
I had never heard of this car before, but what blew me away is that was powered by a 2926cc Ferrari V8. Yes, that 2926cc Ferrari V8. I was pretty enthralled and DVR'd back to watch it over again a couple times and something caught me eye.... The induction system(pictured below) appears to be a individual throttle bodied setup that I didn't recognize off any 3x8 I have ever seen. So I did a little more research. Turns out that the motor was actually assembled by Ducatti (you can't make this stuff up). Perhaps this intake setup might have been something that Ducatti came up with as many car tinkerers have used bike intakes in the past to acheive the individual throttle bodied setup? For our over seas F-chatters just wondering how numerous these cars were, how their value has held up, and how prevalent spare motor and motor parts might be? I am assuming that they throttle bodies would bolt right up, could be some good performance potential there. The overall performance was downgraded a bit where they reverted from the flat plane to a cross plane crank and used smaller valves, heck there could even be some potential in the different heads. Last edited by tommott77; 03-29-2010 at 10:01 PM. 
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#3
03-29-2010, 09:54 PM
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It's not ITB. It's still CIS, just with longer runners and dual throttle bodies.
The lower parts of the manifold look just about right for an ITB conversion. I've been threatening to do so for a while.
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"Given how most Texans feel about Texas, its very existence is a violation of church and state."
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#4
03-29-2010, 09:54 PM
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As a long time Lancia follower and owner (Series II Montecarlo) I would say the 8.32 (not 8:32) was not a big success. It was an interesting car but "compromised." Powerful engine but front wheel drive. I think it was the most powerful front wheel drive car at the time and I also believe it was de-tuned for that reason (would have been too difficult to get 250 hp down to the ground back then). The Lancia Stratos with the Ferrari V-6 was really something back in the day and the Lancia Delta Integrale is lengendary in rallying circles. Never heard of a "Delta Thema" as you mention. Pre-Fiat Lancias ("real Lancias") were revered for their engineering. Less so by the time the 8.32 was in production. I would say an interesting car but not much more. PS. So why do so many people start their sentences with the word "so" nowadays? :-) So I'm just kidding.... so-rt of... Last edited by eulk328; 03-29-2010 at 09:58 PM.
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#5
03-29-2010, 10:06 PM
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#6
03-29-2010, 10:07 PM
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Hopefully it will move forward again soon.
__________________
"Given how most Texans feel about Texas, its very existence is a violation of church and state."
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#7
03-29-2010, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Last edited by tommott77; 03-29-2010 at 10:31 PM.
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#9
03-30-2010, 04:00 AM
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Same block and heads, different internals the main difference being:
- The crankshaft which is not flat plane but 90° resulting in an engine that sounds completely different, similar to an American V8 - The gearbox/differential assembly which is adapted for front wheel drive Can be a cheap source of blocks/heads.
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#10
03-30-2010, 04:19 AM
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A friend of mine had one in Italy and he let me drive it...classy looking vehicle at the time....it felt powerful but being that it was heavy and front wheel drive I didn't really enjoy the drive...and as stated the noise is different than that of a Ferrari..
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#11
03-30-2010, 06:24 AM
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They are not that infrequent here in Europe. A friend of mine just sold his, that needed at bit of work for something equivalent to 5-6.000 US. Its a great car for going down through the German autobahns. The engine has great torque, but has less horsepower than the turbo charged 4 cylinder Thema engine. Has a embedded spoiler in the back trunk that starts coming up when going fast.
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#12
03-30-2010, 08:20 AM
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It also has less hp than THE engine in our F's. I believe around 215 hp...
They are not very common, but not rare either. A quick search on a Europe-wide car site gave 32 hits for 8.32's for sale: http://www.autoscout24.eu/List.aspx?...26&mmvve0=8.32 Hans Last edited by Hans; 03-30-2010 at 08:21 AM.
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#13
03-30-2010, 09:33 AM
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I am a Lancia Thema 8.32 owner here in Canada... too much misinformation already in this thread for me to even begin to correct it.
News Flash - google searches, unverified web site info and Wikepedia are not sources of accurate verifiable information. Should the original poster want the real deal on these cars from someone who has researched more in-depth than anything published to date, he is welcome to pm me. Beev
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#14
03-30-2010, 09:36 AM
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#15
03-30-2010, 09:38 AM
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You are right, there is a lot of miss information about these cars from owners and non owners alike. It would be great to hear your opinion as someone who has ownership experience.
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#16
03-30-2010, 10:01 AM
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Congrats on owning a Lancia in North America by the way. Lancias are a very rare sight in the southeastern US, did more of them make their way into Canada?
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#17
03-30-2010, 10:40 AM
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__________________
"Given how most Texans feel about Texas, its very existence is a violation of church and state."
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#18
03-30-2010, 11:26 AM
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This is a great thread so please correct it where you can . Alot of us are interested to know .
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#19
03-30-2010, 11:41 AM
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Sorry for my initial response to this thread, but as an owner, misinformation hits a nerve. I do not have access to my files re. all the engine details ( at my office), but I will provide some info to keep your thread rolling.
"Lancia by Ferrari" Thema 8.32 is a very controversial car... it was when Enzo and the boys at Lancia rolled it out and it still controversial today...but man...what a sublime experience it is to be driving one at high speed with the solid feel of a freight train and smoooooth! These cars are so misunderstood and yet are very unique and worthy of the respect of any vintage Lancia or Ferrrai (depsite the fact that Lancia owners distance themselves from the 8.32 as a science fiction experiment gone bad and Ferrari owners are afraid that a front wheel drive 4 door Ferrari is horror show material that puts a blemish on their marque) There is no doubt the the 8.32 is the bastard stepchild of both Lancia and Ferrari with a little Fiat and Alfa Romeo and Saab thrown in. BUT...they absolutely got it right since the result is an engineering marvel that only owners of well maintained examples can appreciate and experience. Sorry, but much written on the internet about the 8.32 is incorrect and many untruths are accepted as fact. Fact - The series one engines were all made by Ferrari at Maranello. Fact – “some” of the series two engines were “assembled” by Ducati on contract from Ferrari (not Lancia) and Ferrrai had quality control people in the Ducati plant during this time. All are factory stamped “Ferrari” with Ferrari engine serial numbers and no Ducati markings appear on any of the engines they assembled. Ducati only has record of a "few" engines being assembled there during part of the Series Two run. Fact – The engine is made of the Ferrari 308 block and is stamped from the factory as Ferrari (only…not Lancia) Fact – the engine is badged in blazing red on the huge intake plenum as "Lancia by Ferrari" Fact - Ferrari built/modified the engine to Lancia specs since the Lancia transaxle for its front wheel drive platform could only handle so much hp. Ferrari changed the crank to a 90 degree to assist in detuning hp ( from 240 to 215 in series one non cat cars)while at the same time increasing torque above that which the Ferrari 308 series sportscars had. Fact – the Ferrari 308 quattrovalvole sports cars had the same 0-60 time as the Lancia Thema 8.32 ( the Thema is more efficient in getting the ponies to the road and with slightly more torque it compensates for the Ferrari 308 extra horsepower ) Fact – many ancilliary parts had to be modified/moved to accommodate placing a 8 cyl car in a car originally designed for a 4 cyl.(and later a turbo 6) Fact – sales brochures comingled the Lancia and Ferrari names throughout. Here is an example from a sales brochure... it starts the preamble referring to the “Lancia- Ferrari” history starting with the D 50 World Formula 1 Championship then proceeds to state “ this prestigious team triumphs again with a saloon …….. A super-refined Thema with an 8 cylinder Ferrari engine built to Lancia specifications………Lancia and Ferrari throw out a new challenge to the high-class motoring world…….the 8.32 engine was originally built at Maranello alongside the engines for top sports cars and Grand Prix racing models…..it has all the temperament of the prancing horse” Fact – Enzo gave 8.32s to his Formula drivers (Michele Alboreto and Gerhard Berger) Fact – Enzo himself was driven around in a 8.32 during the last years of his life. Fact – only 7 were sold in England at a base price of 37,500 pounds sterling (compared to the Thema 4 cylinder selling at 12,495 pounds sterling in 1988)….so do you buy three four cylinder Themas or just one 8.32 Thema….hmmmmn? Fact - the bodies (in “white”) were removed from the Lancia line and shipped across town to another assembly facility where a small team of craftsmen hand assembled them to the highest standards, including premium paint, hand painted pinstriping and Poltrona Frau interiors, and a special powertrain. Fact – the electrical gremlins and poor service over the years have caused most 8.32s to be severely neglected and worthless since replacement parts are rare and very expensive (eg. NOS waterpump = $2400.00 USF). The Thema owners groups estimate about 300-500 cars remaining with only about 30-40 known excellent well maintained examples worldwide. The internet price searches indicate many neglected cars available for next to nothing on any given day however, should you find a great one you will pay from 15,000 to 25,000 euros. Fact – most people who have driven one have not experienced what it is like to drive one that is correctly sorted and maintained..huge difference. I have had 7 different Ferrari owners drive my car (they drive, 308, 360, Testarossa, and 400, Mondial T) and all will attest to the surprise they had when accelerating in a smooth powerful car and the glorious sound that is like a Ferrari cross bred with a Maserati…two of the drivers did not know it was front wheel drive until I clued them in, as it is unlike any other front wheel drive car ever built. Fact – the retractable wing is controlled by a stalk on the steering column (it functionally adds 40 pounds of down force at speed) Personal Impression A far a driving impressions, think smooth-as-silk shifts (very uncharacteristic of a Ferrari), think the most comfortable a rich interior you have ever experienced (wood, wool, leather, Alcantara, hand stitching and old world craftsmanship), think turbo like acceleration beyond 4200 rpm smoothly and strongly pulling all the way to the 7400 redline, think no torque steer on rapid acceleration (I can trounce on the gas pedal with my hands off the steering wheel and she tracks perfectly straight….an engineering marvel for front wheel drive), think smooth luxury automobile driving experience like an S class Benz with freight train power and stability, think ferocious Ferrari engine music on acceleration albeit a couple octaves lower due to the 90 degree crank, think an even more aggressive sound with a Magnaflow muffler at the rear of my stock exhaust (I still have the original silencer in excellent shape hanging in the garage) think more expensive than a 308 to maintain since my major service required me sourcing parts from 7 different countries (Canada, USA, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, England) think of the best “sleeper” car ever made with the most interesting and beautiful to look at intake plenum…. The ultimate “wolf in sheep’s clothing” think “active” suspension that adjusts as needed for spirited (some models had a “sport” suspension option on the dash) Think considerable understeer on the autocross course….but better than expected performance for a luxury sedan, guaranteed to be the best sounding car there (unless a 12 cylinder F car or a 355 show up) The car is the most wonderful “sleeper” ever made in my opinion….no one knows what it is ….most think it is just an old Volvo… but the sounds she makes shake the earth (far more sinister sounding than the 180 degree flat plane crank does)…. a distinct Ferrari sound about an octave or so lower due to the 90 degree crank…. And she made a hit and attracted a lot of attention at the Ferrari of America (Central Canadian branch) concourse this past spring…..the ugliest car there by far….so cool!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHc1QC-XJY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgasJ8Fdn5o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTIQH63g0Sw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o59qxCoZdA Beev Last edited by MITYRARE; 03-30-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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#20
03-30-2010, 11:45 AM
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The difference inside engine are the crankshaft, conrods, mainly... I love it!! There are a lot to buy around Europe. First series without Kats. are more powerful but are dated the way they look. Bigger front lights, different rear view side mirrors, different grille... Logos, radio antena... I know one selling right now for 25000,00€! Blue, beautiful. The worst part are: The spares available, price asked and where to find them. Not cheap when it cames the timing belts time... Otherwise, GREAT CAR! Engines were, indeed, fabricated by Ducati, purely for questions regarding space at Ferrari. Then cars were shipped to Firenze to be retrimmed by Poltrona Frau. I've made a lot of Kms. with my series 2 and it maked me laugh when some BMW series 5 or Mercedes owners even think they can catch him... And when the rear spoiler is on, forget... They think they are looking at a spaceship!! I'm on the market for another one... just because I can't stand missing it. Poltrona Frau interior is a must. Specialy in Brown. Regards, Mont
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...Still not walking but giving a fight to be back again!!!... Last edited by mont; 03-30-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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1967 Mustang
1981 Lancia Zagato (former)
Rock Chip Speciale
328 GTB
Alfa Romeo ES30
