'97 F335 Spider Convertible problem | FerrariChat

'97 F335 Spider Convertible problem

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Aeroengineman, Sep 15, 2004.

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  1. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
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    Dave Tegeler
    #1 Aeroengineman, Sep 15, 2004
    I heard of a lot of problems with convertible tops. The one I just experienced fior the first time is that the seats move forward the top starts to deploy and then doesn't have enough muscle to push it up. I re-stowed it and tried again - same problem - but this time I gave it a little help and it continued to deploy ok. what do I need to do? I couldn't find any threads on this.
     
  2. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    Mr.
    #2 LetsJet, Sep 15, 2004
    I think you mean 355..............
     
  3. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    #3 Doody, Sep 15, 2004
    i had a problem like this once with mine. it was when i had just gotten it and i tried to put the top up with the engine off. i assumed it was just a lack of power. after that i never operated the roof with the engine off and i never had a single problem with it.

    fwiw,
    doody.
     
  4. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

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    #4 notoboy, Sep 15, 2004
    Would bet money that you need to fill the hydraulic reservoir - happens all the time to 355s.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #5 Rifledriver, Sep 15, 2004

    That would be the very first thing I would check.
     
  6. richard_wallace

    richard_wallace Formula 3

    Feb 6, 2004
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    Richard Wallace
    #6 richard_wallace, Sep 15, 2004
    Dave,

    We have had a few posts on this very topic - and do not think this is uncommon... Mine worked fine for a few years, then wam - seats didn't move, and the top needed help going back, etc. Ended up having the drive motor on the top worked on and rebuilt a few times... It will do it again soon for me - once they start - it will happen again.

    You are probably - as others mentioned a little low on hydrolics - and get it toped off before you work the top much more - so not to damage the motor (around 1K to rebuild - Parts and labor).

    Actually - having all these problems has taught me a few things about the sensitive nature of the top mechanics and operations. I now always give my top a little help just as it starts it's journey backwards... I am not saying I muscle it - just a little guidance as it starts to go back... It has lasted about 1 year longer for me since the last 3 rebuilds/repairs by doing this. I don't have to do it when it is closing - do to the weight momentum - which helps it close.

    My thing is that the next time it breaks on mine - I am shedding the motor and going to make it a manual. The design is terrible - why would you have to put the parking break on, the seats go up - which for me if I am sitting it in - I am cramped - you can be moving... I pretty much do it without being in the car anyway - so why not have it be a manual...

    On the other hand a few of my F-car buddies have the 360 spider - which the integrated top is very slick and seems to work much better... however my friend (an F-chat member) has a yellow 360 spider (2003) and he has experienced a few times where even his top mechanics "stall" when going down - he just starts over and it works - but still...

    My P-cars never had this little quirk... however - they were not near as fun :)
     
  7. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
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    Dave Tegeler
    #7 Aeroengineman, Sep 15, 2004
    All right guys - thanks for the help - except I don't know where the convertible top hydraulic fluid reservoir is or what spec of hydraulic fluid I should use. Do I have to drive 50 mi. to the local Ferrari dealer to get Shell products?
     
  8. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
    897
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    Dave Tegeler
    #8 Aeroengineman, Sep 15, 2004
    Guys - removed the center cover over the convertible top motor in the aft console area. There is a reservoir or something that looks like one sitting below the motor with the lines "Min" and "Max"- It doesn't look like there is any fluid in it. How do I fill this thing? The diagram in the manual also shows this but doesn't say anything about it.
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #9 f355spider, Sep 15, 2004
    Where is the fluid going?
     
  10. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    #10 davehelms, Sep 16, 2004
    First question that poped into my mind as well. This is a closed system. Loss = leak. M. Benz hyd. fluid is what we were told to use when we were at school on the top and Ferrari had not yet sent any fluid to the US.
    Dave
     
  11. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2003
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    Malcolm W
    #11 Ferrari_tech, Sep 16, 2004
    To re-fill the reservoir, fold the seats forward and remove the trim in the centre bulkhead and top up as required, but as already mentioned you will need to find out where the fluid has gone.

    Ferrari recommend Esso UNIVIS J26 hydraulic oil for the system, if you're stuck for this and have a Jaguar shop nearbye the stock this oil for their cars - the Jaguar part number is JL20315.
     
  12. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
    897
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    Dave Tegeler
    #12 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    I've got the motor exposed and I can see the two fuses, but I don't see a filler hose or tube. Can you explain in detail where to fill this reservoir?
     
  13. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

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    #13 Ferrari_tech, Sep 16, 2004
    Remove the two bolts(#22) which will allow you to pull away the complete assembley (#25). This will reveal a 13mm spanner size blanking screw, undo this and you will then be-able to top up the reservoir(#21) it's easier if you use some form of seringe to inject the oil into the reservoir.
     
  14. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    Dave Tegeler
    #14 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    Thank you very much Ferrari UK Tech. I wish they had those instructions in the owner's manual.
     
  15. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    897
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    Dave Tegeler
    #15 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    Is there anybody here in the US that has the US brand equivalent of the Esso UNIVIS J26 hydraulic oil? - Thanks again to Ferrari UK Tech - Have successfully removed the 13mm cover screw. In 20/20 hindsight this motor and reservoir system is a horrible design for a routene maintenance issue. god bless the Italians. I love their cars but what a pain in the ass.
     
  16. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

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    #16 notoboy, Sep 16, 2004
    Malcom,
    Thanks for the excellent directions. I've had this done many times, but was scared to do it myself.
     
  17. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    Dave Tegeler
    #17 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    Have no fear - this is my first time - the two screws #22 are 5mm Allen head. the piece doesn't pull away that easily because its trapped by the hydraulic lines but you can kinda move it to the passenger side enough to get the 13mm wrench on the nut covering the access hole. I went to the auto parts store and the only hydraulic fluid they had was "Gunk" brand light oil for 1/2 ton hydraulic jacks. The say its anti corrosive anti foaming and works in any small hydraulic cylinders. But I'd like a Ferrari mechanic to tell me its ok to use.
     
  18. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

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    #18 Ferrari_tech, Sep 16, 2004
    Dave,

    Definately not, please try to find an equivilant for the Esso oil
     
  19. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    Dave Tegeler
    #19 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    I talked to Ron Tonkin who did my 30K recently and they say "Pentosin" CHF11F $27.05 a liter. There has to be an oil expert on here that can give us a common substitute.
     
  20. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    Dave Tegeler
    #20 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    Ferrari of Seattle says not to use Pentosin CHF 11F but rather the Mercedes oil ZH-M. since I cant find CHF 11F I can only find CHF 11S - I'm going to buy the Mercedes brand.
     
  21. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

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    #21 jh355, Sep 16, 2004
    Dave,

    Call Overlake Oil, the local (Bellevue) Shell distributor. They sell all the oil products to FoS including the ever elusive Helix 5-40 Platinum priced oil. Talk to Bill Freemen, he will be able to direct you to an equivalent or exact match. Or check out the web page ww.overlakeoil.com

    Ph# 800-722-7743
    Cell# 206-786-5991
     
  22. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

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    897
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    Dave Tegeler
    #22 Aeroengineman, Sep 16, 2004
    I successfully installed ZH-M hydraulic fluid using a $5 Hypodermic kit I bought at the local "Al's" auto supply. I buttoned it back up and successfully performed a functional check. Horray! Horray! Since I live in the southend I purchased the ZH-M at the Mercedes Benz dealer 1 liter for $25. Apparently there is no Shell equivalent for this product.
     
  23. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

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    #23 Ferrari_tech, Sep 17, 2004
    Dave,

    Well done, but did you find any leaks?
     
  24. TheOriginalJimC!

    TheOriginalJimC! Guest

    #24 TheOriginalJimC!, Sep 17, 2004
    Someday, somebody is going to find a little saturated space in these cars where the fluid has collected. At the same time, that person is going to find a bunch of change, some old bubble gum wrappers, Jimmy Hoffa, and the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

    I have know idea where the fluid goes, but my reservoir was completely empty when I purchased by '98 355. Figuring out how to fill the top reservoir without spilling a drop on the nice interior seems to be a right of passage to owning an F355 Spider!

    Is it possible that the stuff evaporates from the exposed inner shaf of each of the hydraulic cylinders? Mine seem to remain pretty dry so I don't understand where the bulk of the fluid goes.
     
  25. delaney

    delaney Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
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    PETER DELANEY
    #25 delaney, Sep 17, 2004
    I did mine tonight using the instructions in the previous notes. Mine was on the 'min' level. Couldn't find a syringe so i used an old fashioned oil can ... the type you fill up ... has a lever you press down .. it had ~ 8" flex. tube on it. Did the job. Used the ZH-M from Mercedes .... $30.67 from the Mercedes main dealer.

    Regards,


    Pete
     
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