360 cam variator failure

Did you use the 'search' feature??????

That's a good thing they fixed it. They have not been consistent..much discussion here.......

 

There is nothing wrong with that as long as the job was done well. Personally I prefer a car that has not been that deeply dug into since it was built because it removes another whole set of variables. If you look at the older cars, say a 250 we all know it has had at least 1 motor rebuild, but all of the sudden it matters who did it. That alone becomes a selling feature.

 

just be happy that is is done already. They are all being recalled and Ferrari only pays for the removal and replace of the parts under warranty--NOT THE MOTOR OUT AND MOTOR BACK IN LABOR--ABOUT 4000.00

 

A. The motor does not need to be removed for that procedure and the bill should be nowhere near $4000.


B. It is NOT a recall.


C. It does not apply to ALL.

 

I was glad mine failed BEFORE I bought my car. It"s like getting a free topend rebuild! I has about 7K miles since the rebuild.

 

I seem to recall previous posts in which quite a few people denied that belts or variators ever failed. One indignant person went so far as to demand proof that a variator ever failed. I wonder where he is now? Hmmmm. Belts don't fail either so this entire thread must be based on a fairy tale.

 

excuse me--but I was just at FOA with LMPdesigner with his 360--the motor DOES come out on this---There is a call into FoNA currently about this.
The estimate is OVER 4000.00
there IS a recall on the units also--per the dealer--but ONLY the part cost is covered.

 

It is a campaign, not a recall. The cost for replacing the part is covered by Ferrari. Some of the other costs are for the owner to pay but not on the order of thousands. The motor does not need to come out to perform the campaign. If you feel the need to argue that is ok with me but you or your friend is the one getting screwed. Ask them if you can read TSB#1232 dated June 2004, it is also refered to as Service Campaign 97. It is very specific and if what you say is true you should be contacting FNA because the dealer is not following information and instructions outlined in the bulletin. I they are charging you to remove and repair an engine that has had a variator failure then that is a very different situation. In that case you should be calling a lawyer.

 

Brian is correct in what he says, There is no need for the engine to come out for this operation. I have personally done a few.
All can be reached by access panel in the firewall.

Best regards, Jim

 

This is a good one...last year when I was chasing after this issue with FNA, the guy who introduced himself as managing and running the challenge series races in Europe the year before (who shall stay nameless) gave me his word that this is not an issue with road cars while he admitted there was a problem with the 360C. All the time, I knew several around the world whose variators had broken and cost lots of money and a lot of down time. It only took 3 months after my conversation with FNA for them to generate the TSB, no I had nothing to do with it...I am just saying what happened chronologically.

The poster who was adamantly questioning the whole thread apparently had contacts with Micheletto FoA, among others...and was referring to the posts as tribal knowledge...I saw a post from him not too long ago trying to find a way to complain to FNA regarding many issues with his 1999 among other things the CAM Variators. Brian you gave him the contact info for the head of technical services...

 

Coincidentally, I'm getting ready to replace my timing belts. The service manager brought up this exact point. He said that Ferrari has a campaign to replace the variators if necessary. He said since I'm doing the belt replacement, the variators would be covered under warranty and would be replaced free of charge (parts & labor).

 

4I2FLY You can lead them to water.......

 

Do it.

 

I'm scheduled for Monday a.m. Thanks.

 

This bit is interesting and I am trying to make sense as to what happened...Could the belts even new (after the variator service) fail if the tensioner was the early style and ceased? I never heard any issues with the tensioners until I saw the variator TSB.

 

It would be great for those of us uninitiated to hear about what the cam variator actually does, its specific function, what it looks like, where and how it fails, pics etc. I'm assuming by its name its part of a variable cam timing system but would like to see the parts that 'fail' and a schematic of where it fits in the system as a whole. Is it a mechanical failure or an electrical/electronic failure?

Excuse my ignorance but I'm not at all well read on 360 systems

 

I don't have the schematic, someone with the shop manual will probably be able to scan and post. The variators are located at the end of the exhaust cams and actuated electrically by the ecu to advance and retard the cams based on load.

In April of 2001 Ferrari issued a TSB and alerted its network of fitting a new redesigned part and said the following:
" The modification consist of a change in shank depth from 0.5mm to 2mm. The introduction of this modification eliminates the possible fracture of the shaft."
While originally 360C cars were exposed to this failure and new parts were sent to 360C owners for replacement there were a few road cars that suffered the same predicament. Always the left bank variator would fail and when it did other components would go with it...
And then in June of 2004 Ferrari released another TSB, which authorized its dealers to replace the defective parts with now the 3rd generation of cam variators for free when customers elect to replace their cam belts.

 

As far as the tensioner goes, (forgive me for not being more detailed but I am doing this from my flawed memory) I have never experienced one myself but they were a real problem in Challenge cars. I think the tensioner problem predated the variator problem but they were breaking at the mount and letting the belt go slack then motor goes boom. One of the Challange guys told me before the redesign that they would pull the inspection panel and inspect the tensioner for cracks EVERY time the car came off the track and sometimes that was not enough, they were still losing motors. I really don't know if they were a problem on street cars but Ferrari just wants to change them and I will give them credit for that.

 

Thanks for expanding 412fly

 

Is there a serial number range for this campaign or recall?

 

Yes, if you do a search I quoted the campaign and either I or 4i2fly gave the serial # range. There has been much posted on this in the last few months. I am not blowing you off but there is quite a bit of information you should know and it has already been said.

 

Matt, you are correct. I was just reviewing that old thread. The guy that said we were full of it, that variators were not an issue and had such good contacts at FNA, F SPA, Micholotto, and probably the Vatican that all assured him it was a non issue. Then he is so unhappy that his car does have those problems he needs to know who to write to at FNA, is also the guy that is now saying we are still full of it about the methodology and cost of fixing it.

Boy was I ever right, you can only lead them to water.

 

It is 114015-123399. you should do a search on "variators" and read the thread "Attn 360 owners Important info".