Ferraris first GP win 1948

[P 4 Staff]

Hi all.
Ferraris first GP win...Skarpnäck Sweden 1948.

http://www.theautochannel.com/public...er6/pg32.frame

Staff.

[Napolis]

Hi
Was this the first GP/ F1 win for Ferrari? What about the 47 wins that were refered to as GP's? Was this the first F1/GP as opposed to the 47 races that were called GP's?
Best

[P 4 Staff]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Hi
Was this the first GP/ F1 win for Ferrari? What about the 47 wins that were refered to as GP's? Was this the first F1/GP as opposed to the 47 races that were called GP's?
Best

You tell me Mr Glickenhaus...I just read the article.

http://www.gpracing.net192.com/circuits/1.cfm

Best: Staff.

[P 4 Staff]

Here´s the track.

http://www.racingcircuits.net/Sweden/Skarpnack.html

Staff.

[PSk]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Hi
Was this the first GP/ F1 win for Ferrari? What about the 47 wins that were refered to as GP's? Was this the first F1/GP as opposed to the 47 races that were called GP's?
Best

The first F1 win for Ferrari was Silverstone 1950 or 51 (can't remember). Driver was Gonzales in a 4.5 ltr v12 car. They won against the mightly Alfa Romeo 159s due to fuel economy and thus better race strategy ... gee nothing has changed .

F1 did not exist before 1950 ... as Jim states just GP's.

Reading the article:

The first Ferrari win outside Italy came in the 1948 Swedish Grand Prix.

And thus probably Ferraris first significant win ... ?


Looking at Barchetta ...

01C is listed as winning GP Rome on the 25th of May 1947.

But back then any old race could be called a GP ... so this was probably just a Rome car club meeting ... infact the Swedish race probably had a weak field too.

One has to remember the 2nd World War killed off serious racing and thus any event after (for a while) was hardly going to be top class. In Ferrari's favour was the fact that most opposition cars were probably pre war ... but then timing is everything

Pete

[P 4 Staff]

PSK.
Look at this... http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gpw3.htm

I can´t find any Ferrari GP win before Skarpnäck May 30 1948.
(I never talked about F1).

Staff.

[P 4 Staff]

Seems to be so much information to be found.

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages...ticles_04.html

Just say STOP.

Best: Staff.

[PSk]

Originally Posted by P 4 Staff

PSK.
Look at this... http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gpw3.htm

I can´t find any Ferrari GP win before Skarpnäck May 30 1948.
(I never talked about F1).

Staff.

Interesting , that backs up my claim that the GP Rome was some very amature club race meeting (ie. it is not listed as a significant race, after all there would have been a lot more races every year that are not on that site) ... heck everybody has to start somewhere, or Barchetta are wrong (or the site you provided is wrong ).

I guess Ferrari's first significant win is thus the one you quoted, the Stockholm GP at Skarpnäck airfield, May 30 1948, by Clemente Biondetti.

Now if you read the books, Clemente Biondetti was a wealthy man that basically financed Ferrari into being ... along with a couple of other rich amature racers.

Pete

[PSk]

Originally Posted by P 4 Staff

Seems to be so much information to be found.

http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/pages...ticles_04.html

Just say STOP.

Best: Staff.

Hmmm ... now we are into the lovely confusion of time, ie:

Originally Posted by P4Staff's link

This new racing team was the brainchild of two aristocrats, Count Bruno Sterzi of Milan and Prince Igor Troubetskoy, a White Russian who lived in exile in Paris. Troubetskoy, in a later interview with Doug Nye recounted: “Right at the end of 1947, Raymond Sommer won the GP of Turin with the absolutely new Ferrari.”

“That was Ferrari’s first big win you know and only a few weeks later Bruno Sterzi called me and said: ‘Listen, there is a possibility to buy some Ferrari’s like Sommer’s. Ferrari is in difficulty. He has to sell two cars. I think we could get them very cheaply. If we buy one each we could make an arrangement so that we would be the only ones to run these Ferraris in the Targa Florio and Mille Miglia. In those cars we could win both races!’ A fantastic opportunity…”

So now we have the GP of Turin in 1947 ... can we assume another club race?. Raymond Sommer was a reasonably big name in those days ... or atleast seems to have driven just about everything.

Pete

[P 4 Staff]

Originally Posted by PSk

Interesting , that backs up my claim that the GP Rome was some very amature club race meeting (ie. it is not listed as a significant race, after all there would have been a lot more races every year that are not on that site) ... heck everybody has to start somewhere, or Barchetta are wrong (or the site you provided is wrong ).

I guess Ferrari's first significant win is thus the one you quoted, the Stockholm GP at Skarpnäck airfield, May 30 1948, by Clemente Biondetti.

Now if you read the books, Clemente Biondetti was a wealthy man that basically financed Ferrari into being ... along with a couple of other rich amature racers.

Pete

Yes...but in this case it didn´t help even richer people like "Prince Bira with a little help from Prince Bertil" He He He.

Staff.

[P 4 Staff]

Originally Posted by PSk

Hmmm ... now we are into the lovely confusion of time, ie:

So now we have the GP of Turin in 1947 ... can we assume another club race?. Raymond Sommer was a reasonably big name in those days ... or atleast seems to have driven just about everything.

Pete

Yes PSK.
But according to this site...http://www.racingcircuits.net/Italy/_gpTurin.html

it was a sportscar race where Sommer drove a Ferrari 159C.

Staff.

[PSk]

Originally Posted by P 4 Staff

Yes PSK.
But according to this site...http://www.racingcircuits.net/Italy/_gpTurin.html

it was a sportscar race where Sommer drove a Ferrari 159C.

Staff.

And yet still called a Grand Prix ... I think Monaco was won by a sportscar in one of its early years.

I guess there was not much distinction back then, and personally we can thank the FIA for creating rules like F1, etc. 'cause atleast from 1950 it is heaps easier to track F1 wins, etc.

Pete

[P 4 Staff]

Originally Posted by PSk

And yet still called a Grand Prix ... I think Monaco was won by a sportscar in one of its early years.

I guess there was not much distinction back then, and personally we can thank the FIA for creating rules like F1, etc. 'cause atleast from 1950 it is heaps easier to track F1 wins, etc.

Pete

I fully agree to that...but I don´t know what 47 GP:s James is talking about.

("Grand Prix"...is not only used in motor-sports...but in other sports as well).

I´m sure you know that.

Staff.

[PSk]

Originally Posted by P 4 Staff

("Grand Prix"...is not only used in motor-sports...but in other sports as well).

I´m sure you know that.

Staff.

It is!!!! ... gee you really do learn something new every day

Pete

[Lemke]

Originally Posted by P 4 Staff

Here´s the track.

http://www.racingcircuits.net/Sweden/Skarpnack.html

Staff.

What kind of track is that? Looks like someone pulled out a ruler and tried to design a 'V'

[PSk]

Originally Posted by Lemke

What kind of track is that? Looks like someone pulled out a ruler and tried to design a 'V'

We are talking about the Swedish remember ... only have to look at their cars, or anything they produce, to see that imagination and free thinking design is not one of their qualities.

One can see the Volvo designers sitting around:
- Yep we need an engine ... design square box to put it in.
- Yep we need an area for the passenger ... design another square box to put them in.
- Yep we want luggage space ... design yet another square box for that.

They have yet to understand (although it is slowly happening) that functional things CAN look good too.

Pete

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by PSk

Hmmm ... now we are into the lovely confusion of time, ie:

So now we have the GP of Turin in 1947 ... can we assume another club race?. Raymond Sommer was a reasonably big name in those days ... or atleast seems to have driven just about everything.

Pete

That one, the 47 GP of Turin that Doug refered to as Ferrari's first big win was in Ferrari's S.p.A.'s 002C. (Photo in 002C thread)



"This new racing team was the brainchild of two aristocrats, Count Bruno Sterzi of Milan and Prince Igor Troubetskoy, a White Russian who lived in exile in Paris. Troubetskoy, in a later interview with Doug Nye recounted: “Right at the end of 1947, Raymond Sommer won the GP of Turin with the absolutely new Ferrari.”

“That was Ferrari’s first big win you know and only a few weeks later Bruno Sterzi called me and said: ‘Listen, there is a possibility to buy some Ferrari’s like Sommer’s. Ferrari is in difficulty. He has to sell two cars. I think we could get them very cheaply. If we buy one each we could make an arrangement so that we would be the only ones to run these Ferraris in the Targa Florio and Mille Miglia. In those cars we could win both races!’ A fantastic opportunity…”

[kare]

Originally Posted by PSk

They have yet to understand (although it is slowly happening) that functional things CAN look good too.

How would you design an AIRPORT?

Best wishes, Kare

[PSk]

Originally Posted by kare

How would you design an AIRPORT?

Best wishes, Kare

Arh ... now that makes a lot more sense , and I guess I should have read a bit more and become informed.

Saying that Silverstone (England) and Ardmore (NZ) were airfield circuits and well I guess, er, their airports were not as structured ...

Pete

[macca]

It's funny how the 'Johnny Foreigners' always called their races 'Grand Prix', which invested them with a continental glamour even when they weren't actually very significant in some cases.

For instance, the Syracuse GP of 1955 was held to be very important because it was won by a British driver in a British car( Tony Brooks in a Connaught), the first win abroad for many years.....but Ferrari and Mercedes weren't there, only Maserati and some privateers. The Pau GP is still run but hasn't been an F1 race since 1962. The Mediterranean GP at Enna likewise...

Yet in Britain some very fine F1 races took place which not only had all the British F1 teams but sometimes Ferrari too; but they were called, for instance, the International Trophy at Silverstone (aka the Northampton GP!), the Oulton Park Gold Cup (aka the Chester GP!), and the Race of Champions at Brands Hatch (the Maidstone GP?).

I wonder whether it was just our innate sense of modesty (!) here in Blighty, or some other reason?

Paul M