Looking for STOCK 308 Alignment Specs

Your 1977 308GTB would *not* be "stock" with 16" wheels. Here's the settings for a 308QV with 16" wheels.
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Hi Rob

Check the Technical Bulletins on my web site, http://dino308gt4. I recall that somewehre in that PDF file there are alignment specs.

Gerrit

 

Are they not in your owner's manual?
Also, Mike is correct. No carb car left the factory with 16 inch wheels.

 

Would the settings that mcharness posted be correct for a 308 GT4 with 16" wheels as well (i.e. are the specs the same for the gt4 and the 308?

Dom

 

Admittedly my priorities were getting even tire wear and having a good "GT feel" rather than operating at the ultimate limit, but on my ex-308 with the 16" 308QV wheels I wound up using:

front toe-in 1~2mm
front camber -1.5 deg
rear toe-in 2~3mm
rear camber -.75 deg

The big rear toe-in and big negative camber in those QV specs always looks too "squat" to me (and will wear the inside egdes prematurely IME).

 

Actually, I tend to wear the outer edges, but that's probably more from my track days than my agressive street driving.

 

Friends,

This is for my 1975 308 GT4. I just replaced a rebuilt steering rack and had quite a bit of trouble getting it in and the wheel centered lock to lock. There is no one in my town that I trust to do anything including changing tires which is sad. There is a Non-factory Mercedes shop a few block away and I am trying to get them to even do my front toe in. They have Hunter 4 wheel laser machine. I asked if I can sit in the car so I can hold the wheel straight as this is important to me. I drive the car 95% of the time by myself, but not sure if they will even go for this. I always was Very happy with my handling so I wish i could just get it back to where it was or close

The factory 308 GT4 toe in says 1-3mm. I have never done this before but what should I ask for. Steve says 1-2mm. If these machine are so perfect should I give them 2mm?

Also even though I dont want to mess with the castor the book says Min 0°10' ÷ Max 0°30' I dont want to seem stupid but could someone translate this for me. I have access to shims but once again have no trust in anyone touching my car. Plus since I was so happy with it before do not want to mess anything up....

I was told that you could set up the toe in reasonably well using a string and a ruler. I cant figure how this is done. Does someone have a writeup or explanation. My wheel is centered but my right disc seems turned in too much would like to get it rough if I could.

Supposedly the F1 teams did this in the 70's which seem adequate enough for me. If I could figure it out. Can you do this with the wheels off using the disc brakes?

Rob

I am running 16 qv wheels on euro GT4's they were and option. I cant see why the wheel size would change the toe in? BTW I went 10 years on Bridgestone so2's with no noticeable uneven tire wear. All around wrere very even which lead to me replacing them and finding a bent rear qv wheel if anyone knows where one in good shape is let me know.....

 

It sounds like all that you have changed would be the toe in. This should be easy for any tire outlet to correct and place the steering wheel straight. I would only have the toe in checked and adjusted. The caster/camber should not be an issue if you did not touch them. I had mine checked about 8 years ago at a Mavis Discount Tire shop. No big deal as they let me drive it up on the alignment machine and I watched the procedure. Go ask a few car dealers who does their alignment work.

 

Friends,

No one explained what the camber specs in Italian mean?

Rob

 

As Nuvolari says, they still do it today. Heres from the Lotus F1 pit at Nurburgring this summer:
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Here is a string alignment kit:

B-G Racing Chassis Alignment String Lines - Demon Tweeks

You might be able to make something yourself.

 

Min 0°10' = Minimum Camber Angle 0 degrees 10 arc-minutes = +1/6 degree = +0.17 degrees

Max 0°30' = Maximum Camber Angle 0 degrees 30 arc-minutes = +1/2 degree = +0.5 degrees

These (positive) camber values are meant to ensure that the car understeers -- I'd go -1 deg camber at least (as stated before).

 

Rob, camber is the angle your wheels lean in or out; in at the top is negative camber, out at the top is positive camber. Castor is the angle your front wheels axis of turn is angled at (forwards or backwards) - sometimes referred to as the King pin axis. Both are measured in degrees, but fractions of a degree are measured in minutes (1/60th of a degree) in the old speak, so divide by 60 to get a decimal value.

 

Wow, some of the early posters were really full of crap. 16" wheels were optional on carbed 308s and my 78 came from the factory with them. Why so positive when clearly wrong? Oh, yeah, it is the internet.

Of course, that was 8 years ago, so maybe they have learned.
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Terry,

Here are the wheels in the 1979 GT4 book, which show the 7Jx16 and 8Jx16 Cromodora wheels were an option on the GT4 for European delivery. I cant speak for any of the other 308's as the GT4 is the model I have spent most my time researching. Just because its not on that spec sheet does not make it unavailable. A front spoiler was an option on all the GT4's and that isn't on that sheet either.

I have talked to owners who have Euro cars that came with the 16" wheels including little factory mud flaps on the back. I will ask my friend with the euro car with 16" wheels for some more info. I was not marked off at the last 3 FCA shows after showing the Factory parts book. FCA rules state aftermarket parts are incorrect but factory options are acceptable. There is some uncertainty in my mind how early you could order the car with these as an option but I know 1978 for sure and maybe late 1977. So technically they are incorrect for my 1975 car but not for the GT4 model per se

Steve, Doc. Bob & everyone else who have responded.

Thanks for the explanation. I understand the camber and shim just could not figure out how to translate the specs in the WSM. It makes sense now. I do not understand how you change the castor on the front suspension. Is it adjusted with the same control arm shims or are there other ones that are added/subtracted?

Thanks for all your help. Im not done yet so will need some more help. I will get the figures on the camber etc at the shop but just want to get the toe in correct. As I said the car handled what seemed perfect to me with my limited experience. Alway handled impeccably, never lost control in a turn, never felt over my head. No matter how fast I cornered I always felt the car had way more ability than I had....

Driving picture was snapped by another Ferrari guy as I was driving to Monterey in 2004 on Highway 1 Last pic is receiving a silver award at on of the largest Dino gatherings ever! I passed both cars that beat me on trailers on the way home!

Rob
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Shims in a different location -- items 9 & 10 here:

Ferrari 308GT4 Parts : Table 33 - FRONT SUSPENSION - WISHBONES

Unless you've replaced a major component, caster won't be much different even if that part of the system is disassembled/reassembled.

 

Yes, but it didn't come from the F factory to you. What (these US based) people are SO POSITIVE about is that 16" 308 wheels were not in the US from F until much later. If someone (including myself) needs a correction, post a correction, but no need for such abrasiveness (until deserved ).

 

Steve- My car was a 78 Euro GTS, 25125, that did have the 16" wheels and four outlet exhaust from the factory. Three years old when I picked her up. One statement was no carbed cars came with 16" wheels from the factory. No mention of US specs. Clearly incorrect.

Abrasiveness seems to come easily here with all the experts passing out bad info. No info is better than bad info. Not everyone lived in the US all their lives.

 

Yes, but why not post a "positive-attitude" correction rather than an insult? Something like "that's true for US version carbed 308 when delivered in the US, but not euro version 308".

 

Steve- Point taken.

 

Friends,

And I do consider you all my friends!

I was only asking about the alignment specs!

My belief is the the more you know about Ferrari the more you understand how little you really know. I have been concentrating on the GT4 for 25+ years now and have owned mine about 20. I liked them when they were not fashionable and maybe they will achieve the status they deserve. Even if not I still love my car. Styles may change but good taste never does. The GT4 is also a weird model that had a make over in 1975-76 so many cars have strange parts that were changed by the dealer before sale per the ferraris tech bulletin ( which I was the first to post online). I have my original set of wheels and would never sell them even have 2 unmounted 7.5x14 Campagnolo NOS wheels I can whip out when anyone wants to know the real color!.

I have a real question. I am very visual and this is why I dont understand the front suspension as I have never taken it apart and wish I would have but this was supposed to be a fluid change.

I think I understand the kingpin shims by adding more to one side on the top or bottom would change the castor angle? The PB says the qty of 8 each which just enough to put two in each position. I will have a close look at mine this weekend to se what is in there.

Have any of you changed these or had to change them. I would be interested in the explanation.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and advice.

Rob

 

Friends,

I am trying to get my car aligned better and I am curious. The shop I am going to has the toe in in degrees how many degrees is the 1 to 3mm toe in? I am also curiousI dont think you can adjust the suspension when under load so I guess you take your measurement then add or subtract more shims? Once again there is no one I can trust to work on my car, based on past experiences and since I am mathematically challenged I was wondering if you all would try to help me with my adjustments. I do have the nifty shim kit I bought from Carl J many years ago just waiting to be used.......

Rob