Do you Heel & Toe?

[Modena Scotland]

When I was on a trackday last weekend, I was amazed to find majority of the drivers were not heel & toeing. Some didn't even know the technique.

Do you heel & toe on trackdyas and during spirited drives?

[Bill Ng]

Pretty much anytime I drive ...

Bill in Brooklyn

[hardtop]

If they were driving Lotus Elises, we can forgive them since it is impossible to heel/toe with them. Otherwise, they need some lessons.

Dave

[Ken]

Originally Posted by hardtop

If they were driving Lotus Elises, we can forgive them since it is impossible to heel/toe with them. Otherwise, they need some lessons.

Dave

Really? On my Europa I toe and heel as the brake and clutch are on the floor and the gas is suspended from the top. Are the Elises like that too?

I use the technique only on a few turns, like one from a large state road that sweeps into a back road I go on to get home. I don't do it all the time or even very often overall.

Ken

[racerx3317]

I heel/toe and double clutch on the street everyday. Queens, NY

[Huskerbill]

Not only do I not know EXACTLY how to do it, I am not sure I see WHY it is a good technique.

Although I am sure there are those on here that will be happy to educate me!!

:-)

[Vang]

Originally Posted by Huskerbill

Not only do I not know EXACTLY how to do it, I am not sure I see WHY it is a good technique.

Although I am sure there are those on here that will be happy to educate me!!

You've never been in a situation where you wanted to downshift and brake at the same time?

That said, it is exceedingly difficult to heel and toe in my car, as the gas pedal is extremely short, and the gas pedal is several inches behind the brake pedal, and I have small feet.

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

Doesn't matter how the pedals are mounted. I do it in my 914 and Squareback (pedals on the floor) and in my Jetta (pedals hung from above). Ever so slowly teaching myself how to rev-match on my Gold Wing but that's more like left hand & left foot & right hand...

Best How to:
http://318ti.org/notebook/shifting/index.html

[Ken]

Originally Posted by Huskerbill

Not only do I not know EXACTLY how to do it, I am not sure I see WHY it is a good technique.

Although I am sure there are those on here that will be happy to educate me!!

:-)

It gets you through turns faster. Say you're in 3rd near the redline and will need to slow for a turn. If you stay in 3rd you'll lug the engine, so you have to brake and then shift to 2nd when the revs drop enough. Or you can heel/toe which means you use your heel (or toe) to brake, the toe (or heel) to bip the gas at the same time, while making the shift. (Right foot on brake/gas, left on clutch).

This way you match the revs by bipping the gas, slow up by braking, and shift to the needed 2nd gear. It's scary when you start trying it but easy once you get used to it.

Ken

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

That said, it is exceedingly difficult to heel and toe in my car, as the gas pedal is extremely short, and the gas pedal is several inches behind the brake pedal, and I have small feet.

My pedals were small as well so I bought after-market bolt-on pedal covers. They're wider and make heel/toeing ubber easy now.

Beginners, it depends upon the vehicle you're driving as to the exact foot parts you'll be using to press the brake and gas pedals. My 914 is big toe (basically ball of foot) on brake, heel on lower section of gas. My water-cooled VW is big toe on brake, little toe on gas.

[Modena Scotland]

Originally Posted by Huskerbill

Not only do I not know EXACTLY how to do it, I am not sure I see WHY it is a good technique.

Although I am sure there are those on here that will be happy to educate me!!

:-)

Its essential for fast driving.

The advantages of using the techniques are:

1) Shorter braking distance as you are braking and shifting down at the same time.
2) Better stability, i.e. no jerky or abrupt movement or locking of rear end caused by unmatched engine speed during the down shifts.
3) Less engine wear as the gears are shifted at the right speed.
4) Can get on the power quicker coming out of the corner as you are already in the right gear.

The disadvantages:
1) None, except you need to take time to learn the technique in the first place.

Dave, I never drove an Elise but can't be that difficult. Please tell why it is not possible to H&T?



Regards

Mass

[Huskerbill]

That's what I thought you did. And it doesn't sound any easier than it did the last time it was explained to me!! ;-)

I have a hard enough time with my size 12s and these damed Ferrari pedals anyway!!! ;-)

I need to get me some of those Pumas!!

[b-mak]

It is part of my DNA.

[Modena Scotland]

Originally Posted by b-mak

It is part of my DNA.

That's what I like to hear!

[Modena Scotland]

Originally Posted by Huskerbill

That's what I thought you did. And it doesn't sound any easier than it did the last time it was explained to me!! ;-)

I have a hard enough time with my size 12s and these damed Ferrari pedals anyway!!! ;-)

I need to get me some of those Pumas!!

I reckon a good driving shoes are essential. H&T is well worth learning and it is something you can practice on public roads. You will be more skilled and confident driver. After that, learn to trail brake to control that understeer! (but not on a public road this time)

[Vang]

Originally Posted by Air_Cooled_Nut

Doesn't matter how the pedals are mounted. I do it in my 914 and Squareback (pedals on the floor) and in my Jetta (pedals hung from above). Ever so slowly teaching myself how to rev-match on my Gold Wing but that's more like left hand & left foot & right hand...l[/url]

I am capable of "heel-toeing" in my car, it is just that I'm basically edge-edging instead of ball-edging.

[staatsof]

One place not to try and learn it is on the track. I found that very dangerous unless you're driving very slow and that's dangerous as well.

I haven't mastered it on my race car as yet. I've got the big wide size 12s and I've needed to adjust the gas pedal to be on a close plane to the brake pedal. Originally they were off by 3 inches.

Bob S.

[J. Salmon]

Its relatively new to me, so I practice all the time, which means I sometimes bugger it just driving around. But you have to do it all the time if you want it to be second nature.

Like a lot of things in life: it takes a little work but its worth the effort. Sounds so sweet when you nail it...

[911Fan]

Originally Posted by Vang

I am capable of "heel-toeing" in my car, it is just that I'm basically edge-edging instead of ball-edging.

Same here. The classic "heel & toe" technique never seemed practical to me. But, assuming I have the right shoes on, I can edge-edge, as you put it, much more easily and reliably.

[Ken]

Originally Posted by J. Salmon

Its relatively new to me, so I practice all the time, which means I sometimes bugger it just driving around. But you have to do it all the time if you want it to be second nature.

Like a lot of things in life: it takes a little work but its worth the effort. Sounds so sweet when you nail it...

I remember the first time I did it and didn't mess up. It is indeed a sweet feeling! I would practice sitting in the car in the garage at night.

Ken