I'm Back With More Motor Oil Information

To me, that's why the Red Line oils make so much sense, as their lighter weight oils are great at startup and yet still provide decent shear protection at high temps.

 

AEHass, I know there is a message here, it speaks of viscosity at start up right? or not? What is your read? I know you are a fan of lower vis oils. Is this mostly true? I know this is loaded but what can you share?

 

Wholly concur. I religiously run Redline 5-40.

--Dan

 

I just want to give a hand of thanks to AEHaas for his link to his "book" on oils. It is the best document around on oil and it's "mysteries". It should be required reading by all on this site!

(And I have a little bit of personal experience with this stuff myself-but AEHaas is just so good at it I am humbled by it!))

 

While the tests apply to your typical vehicle they don't for a high revving race type Ferrari motor. I agree concerning the wear on startup but bearings are under extreme pressure at high rpm in high revving performance motors, a thin oil offers less cushion and protection. For instance on older cars with sodium valves the valve guide transfers heat from the valve to the head via the cushion of oil between the guide and stem, too thin a oil that overheats, breaksdown and no longer provides the heat transfer equals a busted valve head eventually.

I'll sacrifice start up wear for a catastrophic engine failure due to oil failure from too thin a viscosity.

 

Surely they aren't the only oil that fits this description. What about Mobil 1? The Shell product Ferrari recommends? Castrol? Amsoil? Red Line doesn't have an exclusive on any given weight range, right?

Gary

 

FYI, info on the latest oil analysis on my car. 9000 miles in 1 year on the latest M1 0W-40 vs. data at 8000 miles into the previous change could indicate the variability from sample to sample. All values were evaluated as acceptable, so I'm going for 2 years now with a fresh filter. (Note that the car burns 1 qt/3000 miles so it always gets a little fresh oil, but I hadn't topped it up before the 9000 mile analysis)

Here are the results:
1992 MB 190E 2.3, 95000 miles (now 115,000), 3800 miles since last change (MB severe service schedule recommendation)
Quaker State 10W40 with STP, typical urban driving (mixed city/highway) vs. Mobil 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 filter

3800 Miles Dino___8000 Miles Mobil 1___11000 M1 _(CHANGED)9000 Miles M1
_______________________________________________
Iron 4____________14 _________________12 _______15
Chromium 1______4 __________________4 __________5
Nickel <1_________<1 _________________<1 ________1
Aluminum 5_______6 __________________6 __________6
lead 2____________18 _________________18 ________25
Copper 5_________7 ___________________8 _________8
Tin <1____________<1 _________________<1 ________<1
Silver <.1_________<.1 _________________<.1 _______0.2
Titanium <1_______<1 _________________<1 ________<1
Silicon 7___________8 __________________8 _________21
Boron 7____________120________________107 _______145 Coolant & oil additive
Sodium 6__________19 ________________18 _________14 Coolant & oil additive
Potassium <10_____12 ________________17 __________<10 Coolant additive
Molybdenum 62____68 ________________61 ___________81 Ring wear & sometimes oil additive
Phosphorus 833____1001______________802 ___________1001 Oil additive
Zinc 971___________1071______________924 __________1079 Oil additive
Calcium 693_______2782 ______________2413 __________2247 Indicator of dispersants, detergents
Barium <10________<10 _______________<10 ___________<10
Magnesium 7_______24 _______________23______________30 Dispersant, Detergent, alloying metal
Antimony <30_______<30 _____________<30 _____________<30
Vanadium <1_______1 _________________1 ______________<1
Fuel %Vol 3.5_______2 ________________4 ______________4
Abs Oxid 3__________5 ________________38 _____________41
Abs Nitr 12__________7 ________________17 _____________18
Wtr %vol <.1________<.1 _____________<.1 _____________<.1
Vis CS 100C 12.8____13.2 _____________12.7 _____________13.2
SAE Grade 40________40 ______________40 ______________40
Gly test NEG_________NEG _____________NEG _____________NEG
TBN 2.97____________5.05 ____________4.38 _____________7.01

 

Mobil 1 is a good oil. Every oil has different strengths/weaknesses.

Red Line has an interesting mix, if you are willing to use the lighter weights.

Red Line's 5w30 lubricates well at startup, yet has the shear strength protection of many 5w40 oils (better than some brands of 10w50) at high RPM and high temps.

It makes for a great cold weather oil (bit thin for Summer idling/traffic...go with their 5w40 then).

The oil industry is gradually moving to a new classification system...the current SAE system of cold/hot weights isn't telling us what we need to know (cold viscosity, OK, but not shear strength at various temps/RPMs).

Likewise, oil filters will eventually have a new classification system that shows the percentage of particles and sizes that are trapped, that escape, and how much the filter slows down the speed of your circulating oil.

Heck, we'll probably get all of the above just about the time that we're all switching over to electric motors!

 

Have you tracked gas mileage, emissions, or anything else besides wear?

Also, are you using liberal use of magnets?

 

So during Winter months should we consider putting a heat/cold shield in front of our oil coolers (considering in town, highway, non-track driving)?

 

Thanks Ali. You're a good man!

Dale

 

I was just trying to thin it out since it's that nasty, high-viscosity 40 weight...

Actually, I just did a +11degF cold start on that car after it's been sitting for a quite a few days and it certainly did clatter for ~3-4 seconds! :|

 

I ALWAYS USED AGIP 10-40 WEIGHT MOTOR OIL. Souhern California Authorized Dealer always used it. Now recently use SHELL MOTOR OIL 10 -40 WEIGHT ANY DIFFERENCE QUALITY BETTER OR ABOUT EVEN IN PERFORMANCE. The miles on my 512M are 3,800 miles... or is 20-50 much better or 5-50 weight????
thanks
john

 

Ali
I am currently using Motul 300V Chrono 10W-40 race oil in my 550, which is extensively tracked. I was advised by the Motul motorsport specialist to try their 0W-20. What are your thoughts on this?

 

Mr. Haas,

To speed up the oil temp rise to acceptable, (180-210) wouldn't it be beneficial to install an oil thermostat to controll the flow to the oil cooler??

Particularly for those of us in colder climates??

Even more so for carbureted cars (with poor A/F controll cold & at idle)??


I have been considering this thermostat with AN12 fittings.

It allows a very slight bypass to keep the lines and cooler from draining back. I realize this will essentially require 4 new oil lines. probably go with aeroquip.

running cold,
chris
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EAHaas, under what circumstances would changing from 5-40W to 20W50 result in lower oil pressure?

 

I have to compliment you on your continuing saga on the oil syndrome.
As an automotive engineer, I couldn't agree with you more.
There is one thing that should be mentioned though, automotive manufacturers recommend the best "all around oils", meaning that they know their vehicles are sold in all parts of the world and they can only use an estimation of the conditions that the vehicles will be exposed to.
Unfortunately they can't predict where or what conditions each and every car will be exposed to.
I just wish that "someone like yourself" (hint, hint) could put together a book on recomendations based on the type of vehicle , environmental conditions and driving styles that would affect engine life and wear conditions with regard to the oils used.
I'm sure all auto enthusiast's would be potential buyers...Just look at the responses you get from F-Chat....