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-   -   The Enzo reimagined.... Jim's Ferrari P 4/5 by Pininfarina (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/special-projects-concept-cars/92754-enzo-reimagined-jims-ferrari-p-4-5-pininfarina.html)

VIZSLA 02-14-2010 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicko (Post 139355399)
I could not have put it better myself Jim !

Its scares me how much car related influence that tv show has over the general public around the world, but especially in the UK where it gets massive viewing figures.

Not only do they base there reviews predominantly by testing road car's on a flat, wide airfield, that has little significance to real world roads, but each presenter seem to constantly force personal motives and are extremely biased within there reviews.

I understand that it is foremost an entertainment show, but it becomes dangerous journalism when there is peoples livelihoods and reputations at stake due to three fools messing around and having so much exposure.

The only opinion i would like to hear on the show is that of the professional driver, but they remarkably don't let him talk!

If you watch it for its humor it succeeds. As a show for the hard core automobile nut its a waste.
BTW I cringe whenever they "wring out" a car. Its just abusive.

90koenigTR 02-14-2010 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napolis (Post 139348577)
Because JC is a wanker and I don't let wankers drive my cars.

Absolutely hilarious. And I respect that!

PSk 02-14-2010 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIZSLA (Post 139355473)
If you watch it for its humor it succeeds. As a show for the hard core automobile nut its a waste.
BTW I cringe whenever they "wring out" a car. Its just abusive.

Confused.

While I understand Jim's comment, I think the show is great. I've tried to watch the other one (5th Gear) and sorry that is more boring than watching grass grow.

I turn the television on for entertainment and ocassionally to watch a documentary. I do not want to watch a program of boring car road tests. Heck I don't even visit car dealerships and road test cars myself. Could not think of anything more boring.

And as for wringing out a car ... again confused. Yes the unnecessary tail sliding is silly (and that is why the Stig is required because he doesn't and drives properly), but there is no harm in giving a car a proper rev. Sitting on a rev limiter is abuse, but I've never seen them do that. Heck my cars (and motor cycle) get a proper wring out quite often ... it's what they are for, 'cause I drive my cars I don't just roll along in them.
Pete
ps: Oh and I absolutely love the fact that Top Gear is opinionated. Has to be, and very quickly you work out what they like and don't and then you adjust accordingly. If you haven't got the brain to work that out, heck heaven help you. BUT again there is nothing worse than watching a show when they toe the line all the time and you can see that their conclusion is NOT their own, but some writer/director pleasing sponsors.

That is what was wrong with the first series of the Australian Top Gear and it really pissed me off. Their first Holden versus Ford road test ended with a wishy washy conclusion that they were both fine cars. Heck if I want that sort of result I'd just talk to my wife who thinks all cars are just cars.

technom3 02-14-2010 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIZSLA (Post 139355473)
If you watch it for its humor it succeeds. As a show for the hard core automobile nut its a waste.
BTW I cringe whenever they "wring out" a car. Its just abusive.

Sure when they jump cars etc... its a little abusive... but when they are driving the car hard, sliding sideways etc... its really not that hard on the car... especially the going sideways bit... its hard on the tires, which are easily replaceable. Grip driving puts more strain on the chassis and bushings etc... sliding sideways is somewhat easy on the car... Also, here in AZ we have most car manufacturers proving grounds... if you think top gear is rough... you should see what the manufacturer does... Top Gear doesn't even hold a candle to what they do

VIZSLA 02-14-2010 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technom3 (Post 139356840)
Sure when they jump cars etc... its a little abusive... but when they are driving the car hard, sliding sideways etc... its really not that hard on the car... especially the going sideways bit... its hard on the tires, which are easily replaceable. Grip driving puts more strain on the chassis and bushings etc... sliding sideways is somewhat easy on the car... Also, here in AZ we have most car manufacturers proving grounds... if you think top gear is rough... you should see what the manufacturer does... Top Gear doesn't even hold a candle to what they do

Manufacturers test until failure, not a standard I'd like my car held to.

technom3 02-14-2010 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIZSLA (Post 139356915)
Manufacturers test until failure, not a standard I'd like my car held to.

That is true.... but they also don't do anything like that stuff in top gear. They also make sure there cars can survive those tests... and when they pass they get green lighted. Top Gear represents nothing of what a manufacturer does for testing... except for when they took the three british cars to the motoring testing facility... Driving a car sideways, toping it out etc... is what the cars are engineered to do... they are designed to do that. I suggest you visit a proving ground and you will realize that top gear is a freaking walk in the park

NWaterfall 02-14-2010 10:17 PM

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I'm not sure the last time I heard of a manufacturer trying this... :D

Chicko 02-15-2010 05:31 AM

I remember reading in an edition of the British EVO magazine that they refuse to take manufacturers test cars if Top Gear has previously had them to test, as the cars that Top Gear had used where always completely knackered.

technom3 02-15-2010 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicko (Post 139357394)
I remember reading in an edition of the British EVO magazine that they refuse to take manufacturers test cars if Top Gear has previously had them to test, as the cars that Top Gear had used where always completely knackered.

while that could be true... My first reaction is to take that with a grain of salt. EVO is their competition and when you are in competition with someone, somethings words or realities might get stretched.

I mean think about it, when they drove the 430 or 599 its no different than when the factory tests the car prior to delivery. The drive really isn't all that different from EVO as well. Sure the replaceable are probably knackered a bit... brakes, tires, seats (after all the cameras have been mounted all over them etc...) but if the cars were so terrible when returned why would a manufacturer give them a car? I do wonder though, how many tires does top gear go through on one car. LOL

Ok, I did think of an episode where the cars did get pretty screwed up... the one with the Ford Puma... the green one i believe it was... the one where they drove it through the mall and the "baddy" was chasing them in the corvette, and then they did the assault on the beach with the British Marines. That was a classic!

Chicko 02-15-2010 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by technom3 (Post 139357627)
while that could be true... My first reaction is to take that with a grain of salt. EVO is their competition and when you are in competition with someone, somethings words or realities might get stretched.

I mean think about it, when they drove the 430 or 599 its no different than when the factory tests the car prior to delivery. The drive really isn't all that different from EVO as well. Sure the replaceable are probably knackered a bit... brakes, tires, seats (after all the cameras have been mounted all over them etc...) but if the cars were so terrible when returned why would a manufacturer give them a car? I do wonder though, how many tires does top gear go through on one car. LOL

Ok, I did think of an episode where the cars did get pretty screwed up... the one with the Ford Puma... the green one i believe it was... the one where they drove it through the mall and the "baddy" was chasing them in the corvette, and then they did the assault on the beach with the British Marines. That was a classic!


EVO and Top Gear are not really direct competitors, as there core consumers are different within the market.
EVO is a fact based publication, purely aimed at performance car enthusiasts. Since there first issue, they have worked hard to built up a reputation of a serious, in-depth, reliable and high quality publication. There reviews are also taken serious within the car industry. For Example, when EVO are doing test figures on one of Ferrari's new cars, Ferrari supply there own technical support team to assist EVO in extracting the best possible from the cars.

Top Gear is mainstream entertainment, character based and full of sensationalized tabloid style journalism and personal views. Its not directed at performance car enthusiasts. There mainstream appeal can been seen in its massive viewing figures in the UK during the last series (around 7.5 million per episode. 25% of the of TV viewers at airing time).

EVO's stance on not wanting Top Gear abused cars, says more about EVO then it does about Top Gear. It just shows EVO's commitment in trying to achieving the most reliable test and reviews results possible.

Clarkson and Co' rarely show mechanical sympathy, always performing extreme maneuvers for the cameras. You just have to view some of there films where they are using peoples personal cars to see how much more sympathetic they are to the machinery (they used Nick Masons Enzo for example, as Ferrari would not give them one).

PSk 02-15-2010 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicko (Post 139358739)
EVO ... There reviews are also taken serious within the car industry. For Example, when EVO are doing test figures on one of Ferrari's new cars, Ferrari supply there own technical support team to assist EVO in extracting the best possible from the cars.

Hardly an accurate review then is it ...

BTW: I recently reluctantly accepted an Australian Top Gear magazine for free when I bought servicing parts for my Toyota ... and then when bored started reading it and was completely surprised to find it a reasonable read. Infact I read every single article.

As I'm not into the latest and supposedly fastest road car (what a complete waste of our time) I've never purchased an EVO magazine, but have opened them to read a review of a new Ferrari or something.
Pete
ps: Oh and the supposedly professional drivers in 5th Gear ALSO wastes their time drifting the cars all over the place instead of driving properly ... you can see they are showing off for the camera. No different to Top Gear, just not as much fun to watch because the people are as interesting as a brick wall.

Chicko 02-15-2010 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk (Post 139358850)
Hardly an accurate review then is it ...[/i]

In what way? They are only recording and reporting factual data of what a "perfect condition" car is capable of.

Chicko 02-15-2010 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk (Post 139358850)

As I'm not into the latest and supposedly fastest road car (what a complete waste of our time) I've never purchased an EVO magazine, but have opened them to read a review of a new Ferrari or something.
Pete
[/i]

Well you made it clear that you have not read EVO UK, as you would know that they cover all performance cars, from cheapest supermini's to top end supercars, from used performance bargains to mega money classics, and everything in between that appeal to enthusiasts.

Maybe buy some, read them, and then you will have a valid option.

Aedo 02-15-2010 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napolis (Post 139348577)
Because JC is a wanker and I don't let wankers drive my cars.

Such a terrific quote - just had to repost it :D

PSk 02-15-2010 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicko (Post 139359172)
Maybe buy some, read them, and then you will have a valid opinon.

Fair call.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicko
Quote:

Originally Posted by myself
Hardly an accurate review then is it ...

In what way? They are only recording and reporting factual data of what a "perfect condition" car is capable of.

Er, no, with Ferrari there they can tweak things to get performance that you could not buy. Heck the car could have a special motor, etc. Bit like the Jaguar xk120 that achieved 132mph after having the windscreen removed and an under tray fitted.

Anyway mute point, as road car performance tests are completely pointless ...

Now back to the P4/5 :).
Pete

Ferrarista3 02-16-2010 03:37 AM

EVO is a car enthusiast's magazine.

Top Gear (the TV Show) is a comedy...with cars.

BTW, there are some very cool shots the P4/5 on flickr. Those who haven't seen them might enjoy taking a look at this --> http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=p4%2F5

Chicko 02-16-2010 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk (Post 139359352)
Fair call.

Er, no, with Ferrari there they can tweak things to get performance that you could not buy. Heck the car could have a special motor, etc. Bit like the Jaguar xk120 that achieved 132mph after having the windscreen removed and an under tray fitted.

Anyway mute point, as road car performance tests are completely pointless ...

Now back to the P4/5 :).
Pete

I agree with your point about road car tests being pointless, but sadly people remember and judge performance by irrelevant timed figures. Ferrari understand this, and they are also fully aware that they are the often used as the Performance car benchmark, how many time have we all heard the statement "Its faster then a Ferrari".
There is also a lot of envy and negativity directed at Ferrari from the various outlets of the media, people like to see giants fall.
Evo's various Ferrari performance tests over the years are still independent tests, Ferrari's role is only to assist when needed, and to over see that there car's are in perfect condition and being treated fairly.


http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...b_fiorano.html

But i also agree, lets not blemish Jim's fabulous thread any more and get back to the P4/5 :)

Napolis 04-13-2010 12:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Getting ready for spring.

rossocorsa13 04-13-2010 12:47 PM

Jim, is there a sort of white heat shield on the back of her? Or is it a shop cover....

Behind the exhaust.

Never noticed it before.

RP 04-13-2010 12:53 PM

How is Sal?


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