lebron legacy | FerrariChat

lebron legacy

Discussion in 'Sports' started by 95spiderman, May 26, 2015.

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  1. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    #1 95spiderman, May 26, 2015
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
    i was never a big fan of comparing lebron to mj as an all time great but this playoff run is making me re assess. lets say he takes cavs to title over warriors. has there ever been an all star/mvp type player to win it all with a worse supporting cast? these are knick cast offs like shumpert, smith, and mozgov along with tristan thompson and dellavadova! that is ridiculous even if he looses in the finals. magic, mj, bird, oscar, etc all had hall of fame teammates. lebron doesnt have that or even an all star. his teammates are role players at best on other teams.

    lebron is getting close to mj being best of all time. regardless, his performance this season has him replace bird on my all time nba team. magic, mj, lebron, duncan, kareem. bird goes to my 2nd team
     
  2. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Interesting question. Cavs had 66 and 61 wins before Bron left; 19, 21, 24 and 33 while he was hanging out on South Beach, and 53 wins this year upon his return. Arguably, Cavs were on way up with good young player like Kyrie Irving, but let's be serious, this is Le Bron's team. No Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosh on Cavs. MJ had Scottie Pippen as his wingman, plus some other pretty good supporting cast like Rodman.

    Four consecutive finals in his 4 years in Miami. Statistically, they're similar in ppg, rpg and apg. Jordan has 6 rings, LBJ two thus far. I think MJ has the edge on him, since I value championships more than other metrics, but if LBJ can pull off a championship with this team, then he's gotta be in the conversation for GOAT. I just pray to Buddah that it does not come out that Bron Bron has been deflating b-balls!

    T
     
  3. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    I wouldn't have made this post if kyrie and love were healthy. theyre great players in their own right but they've been out for playoffs leaving LeBron with scrap heap

    one issue about mj was bulls almost won championship the first year he was playing baseball. that was year pippin had an all world season. it took a phantom call by ref hugh hollins against pippin that gave knicks the win. how would mjs legacy look if bulls ended up winning one without him?
     
  4. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Good point, but even with a full cohort, there are no Scottie Pippens on the Cavs. Maybe they'll grow to be that good, but I don't think they're there yet.
    Of course, LeBron had two very formidable wingmen in Miami. So, this next bunch of years may be the key to his legacy relative to Jordan.

    I think the Bulls winning in Jordan's absence would have done more to burnish Pippen's rep than tarnish Jordan's.

    Another question, does LeBron's loss of two finals, do anything to his legacy? By my recollection, Jordan was flawless in NBA Finals...T
     
  5. Bradwilliams

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    People need to stop comparing players to Jordan. There won't ever be another one in this lifetime. Lebron James is probably the best natural all round athlete to play in the NBA. However, his skills as a basketball player, leader, and record of improving over time pale in comparison to all of the other nba greats and hall of famers. He's still not even close to being in the same league as Elgin Baylor, Magic, Bird, etc. Magic and Bird could both play basketball 3x as good as Lebron. Athleticism only gets you so far, you have to develop the skill and leadership to get to that next level. And if you don't believe it, just ask Michael Jordan himself. Larry Bird and Magic both used to hand Jordan his ass for almost and entire decade. Michael put on the best playoff performance in NBA history against that celtic team AND STILL LOST. And if Lebron were as good as many people claim that he is, he would have reached this level by now. He has been in the league forever now. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Baylor, Jerry West, etc. were always improving and improving year after year. They were always better than their hype. lebron has improved but very little. And if he were to jump into the ranks of the greats, it would have happened by now. He's a great athlete and entertaining to watch due to his athleticism. That's about it. He's choked time and time again late in the post season. The hall of famers all made mistakes and came up short at times, but almost NEVER in the post season when it counted. They could not and would not choke with the season on the line. That is what separates the men from the boys.
     
  6. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    LeBron is considered by most to be starter on all time nba team over bird. as far a leader, he took a moron like jr smith to finals! what more do you want than that? do you think jr would straighten up for anyone else in the league? maybe kobe and that's it. imo, if he beats gsw, he is almost mj equal and over every other player all time
     
  7. Bradwilliams

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    You're delusional my friend. If you could place any Lebron team against Larry bird's celtics of the 80s, it would be an absolute bloodbath. Remember, you're watching an entirely different game today than what was standard back in the 80s and early 90s. The players of today don't have the fundamantels that the guys back then had. The level of competition in the NBA was at its peak in the mid eighties. The ball movement back then was absurd, see for yourself. It used to move around the court like a laser. Something that is extinct today. The only way to win back then was to beat Bird jordan, magic, isaiah, etc. Which made everybody step up their game that much more. There are more "stars" in the league today but the level of skill and team play has greatly diminished. It's all a one man show now, which is why the rugged teams like the spurs and pistons shined brightly in the past decade or so. Lebron wasn't even better than Bird, how on earth can you believe he's better than Michael? LOL

    Again, the greats DO NOT CHOKE WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE. Lebron loves choking in the post season.
     
  8. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Hi Brad... Interesting points. Not sure I agree with all of them completely, but interesting nonetheless. I think Shaq is making similar points to you in this article comparing Kobe and LeBron.

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-kobe-bryant-lebron-james-shaquille-oneal-20150601-story.html

    So, do you think LeBron will rise in stature amongst the all-time greats if he can pull off a championship or two with his current cast of teammates? Or, do you think he'll be tarnished by his two Finals defeats regardless of how many he ultimately wins (assuming it's not some crazy Bill Russell number)?

    T
     
  9. Bradwilliams

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    #10 Bradwilliams, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
    Kobe is the best player since Jordan. No question. He's better than lebron, don't know how much better but better. Personally, I think that Lebron's time is up. He's definitely got plenty of gas left in the tank to win some more, but as far as improving his ability as a basketball player, that ship has already sailed away. He has NO stature amongst the greats as far as I'm concerned. I can name others that were better than this guy. How about Kareem Abdul Jabbar? Julius Erving? Wilt Chamberlain? Earl Monroe? Charles Barkley? Oh and the bad boy pistons would have handed Lebron his ass too. True story

    I'd take Michael Cooper as my forward before Lebron
     
  10. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    this is not a question of which team was better. its a question of which player is better. as matter of fact, your statement that all these other teams would crush lebrons teams is more testament to lebrons greatness. he wins with the worst supporting cast of any athlete in any sport ever. he has never had a great teammate and that includes old version of Dwayne wade

    bird is a better shooter esp 3 pt and free throws but LeBron can dominate inside like no other wing player. and he makes teammates better like no one else. and he can guard any position from pt guard to center. yes he has choked in past in bad spots but that would be erased with a championship this year. cannot wait to see what happens when he guards steph at crunch time.

    kobe is a good player but maybe as a 3rd team all time shooting guard behind mj and Oscar. kobe is too much of a volume shooter to be on 1st team (that means chucker)
     
  11. Bradwilliams

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    #12 Bradwilliams, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
    "this is not a question of which team was better."

    Yes it is my friend. It's all about winning, not stats. And the best players ALWAYS FIND A WAY to win. Period. The best players can lead and make everyone better and believe in themselves. Lebron has not proven to be this type of player. Also, Jordan had even less talent. His team was always stacked with lack luster talent. Scottie Pippen Ron Harper, that's it. BJ Armstrong, Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley, Bill Wenington? Craig Hodges, Stacey King? The Roster was always enamored with mediocrity.
     
  12. 95spiderman

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    but mj's team almost (and should have) won a ring WITHOUT mj. look what happened to Miami without LeBron and what happened to cavs with and without him.

    and scottie is all time great. hall of fame and maybe best wing defender of all time. Horace grant was better than any player LeBron ever had. not only doesn't lebron have hall of fame teammates, he doesn't even get allstar team mates. and besides, I agree mj is best all time but lebron is second and closing.
     
  13. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    It's hard to argue when you post the gnarliest jams, no-look passes, buzzer beaters, alley oops, and finger rolls from the Era of Short Shorts! :)
    T
     
  14. Bradwilliams

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    It was the peak, just glad that I got to witness the last few years of it :) I lost almost all intererest in basketball after 98ish. And I'm from Indiana

    PS Larry Nance could get some serious air
     
  15. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Oh, yeah. That two ball jam was filthy! I knew he won the Dunk Contest. Until I Googled it, didn't remember it was the first ever, against Dr. J & Dominique!
    T
     
  16. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I don't follow modern game as closely as I did back in the day, but I think Jordan had better talent around him than LeBron (Cavs years), especially after Jordan's first years...T
     
  17. Bradwilliams

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    See I think Lebron has 5x the talent as Jordan. But he'll never fill his shoes. Jordan had a fire inside of him and is arguably the fiercest competitor in the history of mankind. That is what made him great. Lebron has had his butt kissed ever since he was 13 or whatever. That affects your work ethic. Jordan always had something to prove, and the day he got cut from that high school team, the fire was lit, and the legend was born. Had he not been cut, we would never have seen what we saw. I would bet every dollar I have on it.
     
  18. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    Mj's big advantage over lebron was his shooting. He was always deadly from mid range and developed his long range game as he got older.

    Maybe his confidence too. Put mj on the line down 1 with time expired and no question he makes both. Lebron not so much.
     
  19. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Got that right. Just ask Craig Ehlo! :)
    T
     
  20. Bradwilliams

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g2z1dLzTcM

    Somebody released this a few years back, cool to see it at court level. Forget about how difficult the shot was and just look at the pure fire and emotion pouring out of him. Look at his eyes. I've never seen anything like it. Nobody ever wanted it more than Michael. That's the X factor!
     
  21. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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  22. Bradwilliams

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    Bird is the greatest trash talker ever. He once told Chuck Person that he had a christmas present for him. He shot a three, turned around while the ball was still in the air and told Chuck, "Merry f*cking Christmas"! Priceless
     
  23. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Oh yeah. Innocent little white boy, my behind. Larry was great and liked to let everyone know it. This has some great stories. Warning: a smorgasbord of F- bombs for those who may be offended...T
    http://www.viralhoops.com/larry-bird-trash-talk/
     
  24. Bradwilliams

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    #25 Bradwilliams, Jun 3, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Didn't know about the Shawn Kemp story, that's priceless! Everybody always talks about his lack of athleticism. IT didn't matter. Bird had no weaknesses and had the highest basketball IQ their ever was. He had a million and one ways to beat you and plenty of tricks up his sleeve. Athleticism only gets you so far.
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