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Old 06-06-2008, 03:33 PM
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Is This How Far A Thermostat Is Supposed To Open? (pics)

Just pulled this off my 84 308. I have had the car 11 years and I am pretty sure I have never had it changed before. If I did it was WAY back in 98 or so. I'll need to dig thru my papers...

Been boiling for about 10 minutes. Is this as wide open as they ever get?
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tommy Cosgrove View Post
Just pulled this off my 84 308. I have had the car 11 years and I am pretty sure I have never had it changed before. If I did it was WAY back in 98 or so. I'll need to dig thru my papers...

Been boiling for about 10 minutes. Is this as wide open as they ever get?
Looks okay to me.

Did you have a thermometer in the water to see when it opened?
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:04 PM
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guess you were just testing it, but without a thermometer it is just an 'open' test.

You are certainly going to replace it now? only a coupla bucks....might as well up grade to new.
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SonomaRik View Post
guess you were just testing it, but without a thermometer it is just an 'open' test.

You are certainly going to replace it now? only a coupla bucks....might as well up grade to new.
It's already replaced. I was just messing around with this thing before I tossed it.

I am assuming that it needs to be this far open at about 195 correct? I am going to use the thermometer next now that I know it will at least extend fully
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SonomaRik View Post
only a coupla bucks....might as well up grade to new.
More like a couple HUNDRED bucks.

$250+ with both gaskets
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:30 PM
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More like a couple HUNDRED bucks.

$250+ with both gaskets
WTF!!!!!!!!!!! guess I haven't shopped lately...
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Old 06-06-2008, 04:53 PM
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I just replaced mine and it was $68 for a Behr 'stat. Still 8X what a Chevy 'stat costs and you can't hardly tell them apart. But that is part of the fun!

But I have a question: Most thermostats I've played with have just one moveable part, just like you pictures show. But these have an additional plate on the bottom (at the top in your pictures, you're holding on to it). This plate blocks off an opening in the water pump body. Does this plate move as well, opening that port? Why? At what temperature?
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Harper View Post
I just replaced mine and it was $68 for a Behr 'stat. Still 8X what a Chevy 'stat costs and you can't hardly tell them apart. But that is part of the fun!

But I have a question: Most thermostats I've played with have just one moveable part, just like you pictures show. But these have an additional plate on the bottom (at the top in your pictures, you're holding on to it). This plate blocks off an opening in the water pump body. Does this plate move as well, opening that port? Why? At what temperature?
I agree: unless the thermostat is beyond the properties of copper etc. I don't see the need to replace with a high end model, but, I could easily be wrong on this....F40/ok, but production Ferrari : Pepboys
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:55 PM
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Boiling water in an open container won't allow the water temp to reach the same temp that you'll have in a closed, pressurized radiator system. However, I'm not sure how much more the thermostat may open with higher radiator temps. Hard to tell how far open yours really is.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by FandLcars View Post
Boiling water in an open container won't allow the water temp to reach the same temp that you'll have in a closed, pressurized radiator system. However, I'm not sure how much more the thermostat may open with higher radiator temps. Hard to tell how far open yours really is.
?


Areyou saying that the water in the system is hotter than 212?
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:17 PM
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When to replace the thermostat????

My 77 had about 22 k when i bought it. It seemed to run at about 150-160, never higher, unless it idled for a long time, then it would crep up to 190 and the fan would come on.

After reviewing a lot of posts, i began to believe in the "old lazy thermostat" syndrome, that it would not close fully- take forever to warm up and not controll the temp very well.

So, during the major service,doing the, fluids, belts and carbs, i took advantage of the empty cooling system to replace the thermostat, along with the hoses.

WHAT A DIFFERENCE....(I am only shouting because a new thermostat made such a difference in the speed of warm up and the proper temp attained, so quickly - almost like a normal car :-) )

This also had a quickening effect on the oil warm up, because the engine reached 185 so quickly. This may not seem like much to you guys with fuel injection, but we carb guys are really trying to get rid of the condensation and fuel dilution in the oil.

IIRC, my thermostat was about $65 from Daniel at Ricambi, (it was a few years ago when i bought it, so be ready for a "price adjustment").

Bottom line, it is really nice to get the car warmed up in something like a normal time period, and perhaps more importantly, have it come up to the right temp.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:32 PM
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What do we want from a thermostat??

Hi Tommy,

I've been thinking a bit more about it and it occurs to me that if a thermostat can be always partially open and never fully closed, as in the "lazy" slow to warm up thermostat, it might also be likely that the old bugger might not open as fully - and NEVER alow full, (Nominal or Designed), coolant flow, hence, a car that is prone to "overheating".

Might this be a contributor, to the oft perceived notion that 308s overheat a lot?

And if the thermostat is boucoup bucks and not often replaced...the ledgend continues.

Whaddathink??

chris

Last edited by chrismorse; 06-06-2008 at 09:33 PM.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2008, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Tommy Cosgrove View Post
More like a couple HUNDRED bucks.

$250+ with both gaskets
I just spent that much on a new thremo too,so I guess you and I are putting ferrari parts in our car and most of them are going to pep boys..........lol..........when it comes to the cooling system or machancal,or even the engine its oem for me
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Harper View Post
........But I have a question: Most thermostats I've played with have just one moveable part, just like you pictures show. But these have an additional plate on the bottom (at the top in your pictures, you're holding on to it). This plate blocks off an opening in the water pump body. Does this plate move as well, opening that port? Why? At what temperature?
This bottom plate you are referring to, blocks that corresponding opening in the water pump housing as soon as the upper part opens.
Basically it's a two way valve, which shuts off the small circuit ( inside engine and heater system ) while the upper part opens the main circuit through the engine AND radiator.
That's also the reason, why the Owners Manual says; if you leave out the thermostat - often an emergency solution on other cars when it's stuck closed - there will be NO flow through the radiator.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

Last edited by Martin308GTB; 06-07-2008 at 04:18 AM. Reason: 'IIRC' removed; just inspected my spare thermostat
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:32 AM
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Hey Guys!
I also just had to purchase a new thermostat for my QV. T rutlands quoted me a price of $256.00! just about wet myself! Lyle Tanner wanted $39.00. Didn't really need a gold plated thermostat so I purchased mine from Lyle.
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Old 06-07-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FandLcars View Post
Boiling water in an open container won't allow the water temp to reach the same temp that you'll have in a closed, pressurized radiator system. However, I'm not sure how much more the thermostat may open with higher radiator temps. Hard to tell how far open yours really is.
The rated temperature of a thermostat is well below the boiling point of water.


A more important test is to verify the operation of the NEW thermostat before installing it.

It is legendary how many are defective right out of the box, I ALWAYS test a new one, on the stove with a thermometer in the water.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:50 PM
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Hey Guys!
I also just had to purchase a new thermostat for my QV. T rutlands quoted me a price of $256.00! just about wet myself! Lyle Tanner wanted $39.00. Didn't really need a gold plated thermostat so I purchased mine from Lyle.
like me know how long it will last?good luck!
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Tommy Cosgrove View Post
?


Areyou saying that the water in the system is hotter than 212?
Coolant temps will vary. The water in a pressurized radiator system could get hotter than boiling water in a pan, because the radiator system is kept at a higher pressure by the radiator cap. If you're running the vehicle when it's 20 degF outside, the radiator system will have a lot easier time getting rid of engine heat, and the thermostat could even stay closed some of the time to keep the engine temp up. OTOH, if it's 110+ degF outside, and if the cooling system is not designed to handle the heat, actual coolant temps could get well over 212F and the engine could overheat.

You'll rarely be able to reach 212degF in a boiling pan since the actual raw barometric pressure measured with a standard mercury Fortin barometer is almost always lower than standard pressure of 14.7psia, and water will boil before the temp gets up to 212F. For those not aware, barometric pressures reported in weather programs, such as on TV, are not actual measured barometric pressures. They are measured pressures corrected back to standard conditions of sea level elevation, and a standard temperature of 59degF (IIRC)... not the actual temperature where the barometric pressure was measured. There's also even a latitude and longitude correction, believe it or not, which IIRC is to correct for changes in earth's gravity which can also affect weight of the atmosphere (and therefore barometric pressure).
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 2NA View Post
The rated temperature of a thermostat is well below the boiling point of water.


A more important test is to verify the operation of the NEW thermostat before installing it.

It is legendary how many are defective right out of the box, I ALWAYS test a new one, on the stove with a thermometer in the water.
I could be wrong on how thermostats work, but I always believed that the rated temp was where they started to open, but that with higher temps they could still open further. If the rated temp is for the full-open position, then they must start to open at a lower temp than that. Don't know what rated temps are available for our F cars, but assuming they're high enough, full-open temp could be higher than the temp you could reach in a boiling water pan. Mostly depends on actual barometric pressure that affects boiling temp of water in a pan.
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:01 AM
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Irondogmike Hello!
To change the thermostat takes around an hour,and the way I'm looking at it, I can replace it six times and still buy lunch for what you paid for yours. Paying more for a part in no way ensures its longevity. OEM fuse blocks-v- Birdmans comes to mind. Okay, flame suit on!
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