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  #1  
Old 07-25-2008, 10:29 PM
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Basic oil filter questions

While doing some research on the Baldwin oil filter site concerning my old Scout 4WD, I ran across the B253 filter that is used by most of the 308 owners.

I have a few questions about some of the oil filter lingo.

I see the term "by pass valve" on many filters. Specifically, I see the term "8 PSID by-pass valve" on many filters. Does this mean that BELOW an oil pressure of 8PSI the oil will BYPASS the filter? What specific purpose does this serve? One would think that you would want ALL the oil to pass through the filter at ALL time. What if a filter gets totally clogged up? Then you would definately want the oil to bypass the filter and continue on through the engine, otherwise the engine would burn up. Dirty oil is better than no oil. But wouldn't that mean that you would want the valve to bypass when the oil got ABOVE a certain pressure (as might happen with a clogged filter?) I'm confused.

I see the term "drain back valve". I assume that this valve traps the oil inside the filter and prevents the oil from draining back into the oil pan and therefore leaving the filter dry upon engine start up. This would seem to be a gravity related function that would depend upon the position that the oil filter is mounted, would it not?

I see the term "stand pipe". What specific purpose does it serve? It would seem to also be a gravity related function. Please elaborate on these "stand pipes".

I have been trying to collect some interchangeable Baldwin filter numbers regarding my old Scout and the suggested factory application is not always the best. There are longer and shorter versions, by-passed and non-bypassed, stand pipe and non-stand pipe verstions, etc, etc. The possibility of using a longer filter in the stock location or a remote location is also one of the variables in question.

And input appreciated.
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:59 PM
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I believe that a bypass valve is for when the filter gets clogged, at a certain pressure the oil will bypass the filter and straight into the engine, like you said dirty oil is better than no oil.

Stand Up pipe; since the filter is/are mounted upsidedown, this allows the oil to stay inside the filter to avoid spillage/mess when removed.
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsefly View Post
...Specifically, I see the term "8 PSID by-pass valve" on many filters. Does this mean that BELOW an oil pressure of 8PSI the oil will BYPASS the filter? What specific purpose does this serve?...
No, it means when the pressure DIFFERENCE between the inlet pressure and the outlet pressure (i.e., the pressure difference across the filter element) reaches 8 PSID (PSID = pounds per square inch differential) the bypass valve opens and lets oil go directly from the inlet to the outlet without passing thru the filter element (assuming that the high pressure difference is caused by a clogged up filter element). 8 PSID is lowish compared to the Baldwin B253 which is spec'd at 19 PSID. Cheap oil filters (like the Fram PH2804-1) will have a "one-use" bypass valve that once opened, stays open; the Baldwin has a better quality spring-loaded bypass valve that will reset closed if the pressure difference drops below the 19 PSID value.

The anti-drain back valve (present on virtually all oil filters and needed for inverted or non-inverted mounting situations) is there to try to prevent the oil from running out of the oil pump and the line going from the pump outlet to the filter inlet and back out the pick-up screen (keeps the oil pump "primed").

The standpipe is a special feature (added originally by Baldwin) that helps trap a little more oil inside the oil filter case itself (IF the ADV works properly) when the oil filter is mounted gasket end down. If inverted and without the standpipe, all of the oil inside of the oil filter case will eventually run out the filter outlet thru the engine clearances (even though the ADV is closed and keeping the oil pump and the line going from the pump outlet to the filter inlet full of oil).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg standpipe sketch B.jpg (32.5 KB, 477 views)
File Type: jpg Baldwin B253 small.jpg (92.3 KB, 471 views)

Last edited by Steve Magnusson; 07-25-2008 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Magnusson View Post
No, it means when the pressure DIFFERENCE between the inlet pressure and the outlet pressure (i.e., the pressure difference across the filter element) reaches 8 PSID (PSID = pounds per square inch differential) the bypass valve opens and lets oil go directly from the inlet to the outlet without passing thru the filter element (assuming that the high pressure difference is caused by a clogged up filter element). 8 PSID is lowish compared to the Baldwin B253 which is spec'd at 19 PSID. Cheap oil filters (like the Fram PH2804-1) will have a "one-use" bypass valve that once opened, stays open; the Baldwin has a better quality spring-loaded bypass valve that will reset closed if the pressure difference drops below the 19 PSID value.
So the higher the PSID rating, the wider the pressure variance that can occur before the bypass valve opens? If a filter has an 8PSI valve, that means that there can be a maximum of 8 PSI difference in pressure between inlet and outlet before the valve opens. With the 19 PSID rating, there can be up to 19 PSID variance between inlet and outlet pressure before the bypass filter opens and oil goes around the filter, correct? In other words, the higher the PSID rating, the greater the amount of clogging that can occur in a filter before the bypass valve operates and allows oil to go around the filter?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Magnusson View Post
The anti-drain back valve (present on virtually all oil filters and needed for inverted or non-inverted mounting situations) is there to try to prevent the oil from running out of the oil pump and the line going from the pump outlet to the filter inlet and back out the pick-up screen (keeps the oil pump "primed").

The standpipe is a special feature (added originally by Baldwin) that helps trap a little more oil inside the oil filter case itself (IF the ADV works properly) [b]when the oil filter is mounted gasket end down]/b]. If inverted and without the standpipe, all of the oil inside of the oil filter case will eventually run out the filter outlet thru the engine clearances (even though the ADV is closed and keeping the oil pump and the line going from the pump outlet to the filter inlet full of oil).
So there is no real reason to seek a standpipe filter unless you intend to mount the filter upside down,...correct?
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Old 07-26-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsefly View Post
So the higher the PSID rating, the wider the pressure variance that can occur before the bypass valve opens? If a filter has an 8PSI valve, that means that there can be a maximum of 8 PSI difference in pressure between inlet and outlet before the valve opens. With the 19 PSID rating, there can be up to 19 PSID variance between inlet and outlet pressure before the bypass filter opens and oil goes around the filter, correct? In other words, the higher the PSID rating, the greater the amount of clogging that can occur in a filter before the bypass valve operates and allows oil to go around the filter?...
Yes, everything you said here is OK. Although I wouldn't say that the purpose of the higher Baldwin 19 psid spec is to allow more filter element clogging before bypass occurs, but rather that the lower 8 psid spec is an indicator that the filter element of such a filter is so wimpy that it might tear if the pressure differential exceeds 8 psid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsefly View Post
...So there is no real reason to seek a standpipe filter unless you intend to mount the filter upside down,...correct?
Correct -- if the filter is not mounted gasket end down, no need for the standpipe (and even if it had a standpipe, the standpipe wouldn't do anything if the gasket end is up). The Baldwin B252 is the B253 without the standpipe.

Last edited by Steve Magnusson; 07-26-2008 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 07-26-2008, 05:04 PM
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Steve,

Thanks for the explanation and diagrams. I've always used B253 filters in my 328 because they came highly recommended, but I did not know the technical details.
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:42 PM
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So whats the PSID on a UFI??
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Old 07-27-2008, 08:49 AM
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Beg to differ on the prevalence of anti drain back valves. On the generic cars I see using generic filters my estimate is 20% lack them. It seem to reflect filter quality.
Very important on base down installations. Without the valve the filter has to be filled at start up before oil gets to the rest of the motor.
Cheers,
Tom B.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:12 AM
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My only Fram experience

Below are pictures of the fram filter i instlled during a major service. The filter was given to me by the "fine fellow" who sold me the 308 4 years ago. It was what i had available, so tried it.

I was running 0-30 Mobile-1 Temp was up to 240 and pressure was runnning about 80. No problems during my first track day untill the afternnoon, when i suddenly noticed that the oil pressure had dropped to about 40. I pulled off the track, brought the car in, checked the oil it was ok. Let it cool off and fired it up. Pressure was ok till it got warmed up, then back to 40-45 psi.

We checked the pressure with a known good gauge and the Vaglia was right on, Pulled the bypass and it was a little sticky, so we polished it and reinstaled, still low. In desperation, i pulled the filter and here is what we found:

Some what pissed off but vastly relieved, i installed a 253 and the oil pressure was restored.

To be fair, this could have been a fluke, maybe a stuck pressure controll valve, (it was a bit sticky), but in the future, i will not use Fram again.

hth,
chris
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File Type: jpg 100_1197.jpg (73.3 KB, 350 views)
File Type: jpg 100_1198.jpg (57.5 KB, 347 views)
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:46 AM
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I went to the East Side of town, to get some Baldwins B253s last week...it IS a truck filter company! LOL!

Thanks for the excellent drawing Steve, you do indeed have EVERYTHING!
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:26 PM
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Thanks Chris!

There was a picture like this posted on the "old" Fchat site back in 2002 or so...same problem, Fram filter was collapsed. The picture got lost in the blow up of the server back in 2004 or 2005...unfortunate for you, but at least we have the evidence back of what is going on.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:32 AM
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fram sucks. Baldwin is an amazing, well made product. their air and fuel filters that fit the 308 work great too.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:50 AM
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Got the part numbers handy for those (air and fuel), carreaper?

I was wanting to get them as well...I promised this distributor I'd keep them busy! LOL!
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BigTex View Post
Got the part numbers handy for those (air and fuel), carreaper?

I was wanting to get them as well...I promised this distributor I'd keep them busy! LOL!
should be in the cross ref thread i posted. if not, let me know and i will dig thru my notes and hard drives.i still have some of the carb car fuel filters new in box ( not for sale) but i can get part numbers off of them. i saw the 308 airfilter they had, but i removed the sound deadening from my aibox, and used a k&n filter instead.
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:30 AM
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My Garage
I almost won this on ebay!
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Robert Garven Ventura, CA 1975 Dino 308 GT4 Red/Black #10766
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:35 AM
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I almost won this on ebay!
Very cool...

What's the story behind it (year printed, where it appeared, what format [magazine ad, sticker, etc], dimensions)?
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTex View Post
Got the part numbers handy for those (air and fuel), carreaper?

I was wanting to get them as well...I promised this distributor I'd keep them busy! LOL!
Carbureted 308 Baldwin air filter part number:

PA2094
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File Type: jpg BaldwinAir3.jpg (73.0 KB, 194 views)
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Old 08-02-2008, 01:49 AM
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Peter,

Since I did not win it, I cant say, never seen another and no one at baldwin is old enough to even remember it!!

Rob
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:47 PM
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Oil filter for 308

Just in case you do not get B253 easily in your country the global cross references list ( from CLEAN filters aftermarket web site ):
ACDelco PF2, PF939, SC, X16
ALCO FILTER SP802
AMC NO2224
AMC Filter NO2224
BALDWIN B253, BT216
BOSCH 0451203009, 0451203153
CHAMP PH4403
CHAMPION C105, C143
COOPERS Z1036, Z7
CROSLAND 2107, 637
DONALDSON LFP554403, P554403, P779126, P779152
DONIT FILTER 431087
FIAAM FT4863, FT4863A
FILTRON OP563
FLEETGUARD LF3313, LF3466, LF701
FRAM PH28041, PH2821A, PH4743, PH5443
GUD FILTERS Z34, Z89
HENGST FILTER H17W06
KNECHT AW66, OC132, OC37
MAHLE FILTER AW66, OC132, OC37
MANN-FILTER W940/24, W940/27
MECAFILTER ELH4126, ELH4193
P.B.R. BC1166
PURFLUX LS453A
PUROLATOR L30001, L37237, MF53400A, PC237, PC341, PIL24X, PIL30
SOFIMA S6040R, S9400R
TECNOCAR R405, R406
TEHO 4076
TJ FILTERS FB2062, FB5471
UFI 2310202, 2316402, 2318100
UNIPART GFE116, GFE320
Have used also BOSCH 0451104063 and worked fine on the GT4.
Regards
Morcal
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:54 PM
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The problem with that list, is that while those filters will all physically fit, most do NOT have the internal standpipe that Ferrari requires/recommends. So far, only the Fram 2804-1 (yuck!), Baldwin B253 and UFI are confirmed to have it....none of the others.
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Last edited by f355spider; 08-02-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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