Alternatives for Michelin XWX 205/70 R14 ?? | FerrariChat

Alternatives for Michelin XWX 205/70 R14 ??

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by PBE624, Dec 25, 2007.

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  1. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
    372
    De Panne Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    #1 PBE624, Dec 25, 2007
    Hi all,

    as the price for the Michelin XWX 205/70 R14 in Holland is a 'nice' 310 Euro ($400+) a tire, I hvae been looking for cheaper alternatives that fit a 308GTB, 1976.

    I have found some manufacturers such as Fulda & Vredestein carry this size for that rim of tire at a third of the original Michelin price.

    However, here is the catch: the local MOT/DOT/ technical inspection control in my country during its annual check up requires that tires are capable of handling the maximum speed of the car, which for a 308 is above 240km/hr. Therefore,tire should have a speed index of 'W' (max. 270km/hr) and the above examples I gave only have a 'V' rating (max.240km/hr) .

    So even though realistically, you may never go that fast, you still need the tires to cope with that speed.

    The only variance allowed is a 2% variance on diameter (e.g. 215/65,...) but not on the 'speed rating'.

    Though I have been searching quite a few tire constructors website, have not found a tire with W rating for 14 inch wheels...

    Any suggestions ?

    Merry X-mass,
    Frank
     
  2. rtking

    rtking Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2006
    703
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Bob King
    #2 rtking, Dec 25, 2007
    I would think that finding a speed rated 14" tire is going to be a challenge. If you're going to "invest" $400 a tire for Michelin replacements (which, incidentally, the XWX was made prior to the current Z, W or Y speed ratings), I'd recommend that you look at Super Performance or T Rutlands for their replica 16" wheels. Much easier to get speed rated tires for the 16" wheel and you'll be able to use much more modern tires (greater stability, performance and reliability.) That way you can keep the 14" for concourse shows, etc.
     
  3. slewman

    slewman Karting

    May 4, 2004
    158
    #3 slewman, Dec 25, 2007
    Vredestein Sprint Classic 205/70 VR 14
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,314
    South East
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    Jimmie
    #4 greyboxer, Dec 25, 2007
    There's also a Fulda equivalent - I'm sure a search in the 308 section will yield other answers
     
  5. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    2,298
    northern va
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    john g
    #5 johng, Dec 25, 2007
    try the kumho 205 70 VR 14. the dealer recommended them to me, the previous owner of my 308 used them and a couple of other local 308s are using them (and on the track as well). they are good tires.
     
  6. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    2,298
    northern va
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    john g
    #6 johng, Dec 25, 2007
    sumitomo htr 200 is the specific type
     
  7. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
    372
    De Panne Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    #7 PBE624, Dec 26, 2007
    Thanks so far for all the suggestions!

    I found the info already before on the Vredestein classic and the Fulda, which both have the correct tire size but not the 'adequate' speed indicator.

    I am all for getting the 16" rims (which were what I had on my previous 328), but the problem is that I am looking at buying a 1976 308 and importing it. It currently does not have the correct tires, and when importing a car in Belgium your 'original' tire set up is required to be able to get the proper 'DOT' approval equivalent.

    So, even if I buy the 16" with the more common tires, I would still need the original tires, even if it was just for a day to get the 'approval'.... :)

    Maybe I will ask around some garages to check if they have any for loan...

    Of course, once I have passed the inspection, I could also put on the Vredestein 205/70 R14 with speed index V, as long as I change them for the annual inspection .... so again, would need some second hand XWX tires for a day a year....

    Last alternative, bite the bullet, get the original tires at 1,300 Euro for 4, and use them for a while. Then store them for the annual check and in between drive the Fulda's or Vredestein at 100 Euros a tire...


    Anybody know how many km or years you can do with a set of XWX (no tracking, racing, just 'normal' driving).

    Regards,
    Frank
     
  8. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2003
    42,125
    38.89780987025799, -77.03650834642602
    #8 dm_n_stuff, Dec 26, 2007
    I have XWX on my Dino.

    Manufacturers suggest that 5-7 years is the maximum use for any tire. There are several discussions on here about that. A search should turn up several threads.

    My car HAD original xwx radials on it that were about 20 yrs old. They were scary.

    However, if you just need a set for your MOT inspection, watch Ebay. I see sets of xwx radials on there pretty regularly. A used set of four (they were about 9 yrs old) was on last week, don't know what they sold for, but couldn't have been anywhere near the original list price.

    Good huntung.

    Dave
     
  9. Tinbender

    Tinbender Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2004
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    Terry W. Phillips
    #9 Tinbender, Dec 26, 2007
    I don't fully understand what you are saying as the Michelin tires are also V rated?
     
  10. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
    372
    De Panne Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    #10 PBE624, Dec 26, 2007
    XWX Michelin does not have rating, but to match + 240km/h speeds, tire should be W rated...
    so either original non rated Michelin XWX ($$$) or W rated modern tires..... which are hard to find in 14"

    Hope this clarifies.


    P.S. 16" were not 'optional' on the 308 until the QV models..


    Cheers,
    Frank
     
  11. morcal

    morcal Formula Junior
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    Mar 7, 2003
    384
    Turin,Italy
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    Cal
    #11 morcal, Dec 27, 2007
    You can buy in Belgium Fulda Carat 205/70-14 with the V rating , which is prescribed accordingly to the original car certification . Neither Michelin XWX nor Good-Year G800 ( the original factory car tires ) were in 1974 W rated for use on the 308.
     
  12. wise3

    wise3 Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    370
    FL
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    Ward Orndoff
    #12 wise3, Dec 27, 2007
    16's were a 308 option in Europe in the 70's. In the June 17, 1978 Motor test of the 308 GTB vs P****e 911, the 308 had the optional 16" wheels, which cost an extra 600 pounds at the time. A friend of mine got a set of the Euro 16's and the accompanying sport suspension components and put them on his US 308 in the late 70's.
    (the Motor test is reprinted in the Motor & Classic Ferrari 1978 - 1984 book).

    But they may not have been available as early as the 1976 model year; I don't know.
     
  13. ogrilp400

    ogrilp400 Rookie

    Mar 31, 2006
    23
    #13 ogrilp400, Dec 27, 2007
    Er Guys, the correct designation is Michelin XWX 205/70 VR14 V is the rating, R for radial. Therefore if you can find a 205/70 VR14 then you have the correct rating as per the original sprecifications.

    Ken.
     
  14. PBE624

    PBE624 Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2005
    372
    De Panne Belgium
    Full Name:
    Frank
    #14 PBE624, Dec 28, 2007
    Hi all,

    thanks for feedback so far.

    Wise 3 is correct that 16" was an option so, if all else fails, will switch to that as so many have done.

    I have sent a mail to the local Ferrari shop to check if V rated tires were and are ok. They are on x-mass break so should hear from them next week. If they were ok as per original car certification, will stick to 14" and get the Fulda or Vredestein tire.

    Will keep you posted on feedback from dealership.

    Cheers,
    Frank
     
  15. cptndon

    cptndon Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2005
    433
    Annapolis
    #15 cptndon, Dec 28, 2007
    Frank, my car, #20695, was a German market car and was originally equipped with XWX's. The owner's manual specifies them also. Can your authorities require a tire with a speed rating higher than originally fitted? BTW I am happy with the V rated Vredesteins I'm using now.

    Wiseman, you mentioned 308 "sport suspension" components. I've never heard of these before. What are they and were these "factory" parts?

    Happy New Year everyone!
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    #16 BigTex, Dec 28, 2007
    Goodyear has flown in some Fulda Assuros in this size, I mentioned it in another 308 Section thread, let me get them on the ground for testing and work with them to set up US distribution......

    They are unidirectional gatorback treads and set next to my ancient Michelins look GREAT!!!!!

    Let me do a few doughnuts, and let them figure out current pricing........
     
  17. wise3

    wise3 Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
    370
    FL
    Full Name:
    Ward Orndoff
    #17 wise3, Dec 28, 2007
    sorry, I have no real knowledge, just the guy's comments from long ago. He said the Euro sport suspension option included the 16's, different shocks (to offset the shorter tire sidewall height, he said) and alignment settings (to compensate for the larger rear vs front wheel/tire size). And maybe the deeper front spoiler. I don't remember if he said sway bars were different or not. At the time, it was just conversation -- I didn't put 16's on my car until many years later, and I just did wheels and alignment myself, as many do.
     
  18. Harry

    Harry Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    93
    Germany
    #18 Harry, Dec 28, 2007
    I had the same problem. In fact, Michelin XWX have the old "VR" rating, which meant back in the seventies ">210 kph". The tire was rated by Michelin for cars with top speeds between 250 and 300 kph. This is more than a "V" rating and would at least correspond to a "W" rating today.

    The fast cars in the seventies had only particular tires released by the manufacturers like Ferrari and others. As there was a release by Ferrari for this particular tire, there is no problem to get it through MOT, TUEV etc.

    After I talked to the German TUEV about this issue, I decided to stay with XWX tires for the 308GT4, as there is no legal alternative in this size.

    The Michelin factory description of the XWX can be found here:

    http://www.michelin-passion.com/passion/front/templates/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=41&lang=EN

    Regards
    Harry
     

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