Hey all, usually over on Ferrari Life. Doesn't seem like anyone over there has a kevlar clutch on their F430s. Currently using a 2005 F430 F1 Spyder as my daily driver. I put around 30K miles on my daily drivers a year. This usually equates to 2 clutch jobs per year. A friend of mine uses a Gallardo for a daily driver and recommended a Kevlar Clutch by Hi Tech Exotics. They seem to be VERY popular among to L car guys. Anyone here have any experiences with the kevlar products on F cars? Thank you kindly,
With that mileage and attrition rate I can see how/why you'd be seeking alternatives. I have a manual 360 but have read of a number of 360 and perhaps some 430 owners trying alternative clutch discs. It seems that they can be particularly difficult to get right with the F1 system which I presume you have. That said, there are people who have not encountered problems with F1. Clutch wear has probably most to do with driving style and secondly driving conditions. With a few minor adjustments to your driving style/method it is possible that you might be able to extend your consumption to one a year realistically. There are many discussion threads in the 360/430 section on the subject. You might also wish to consider changing to a manual car which would likely yield a longer clutch life. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373907&highlight=driving+style+clutch http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356388&highlight=driving+style+clutch If you search for Kevlar Clutch in the 360/430 section there are many, many threads.
If you're replacing your clutch every 15k I would suggest it isn't being set up properly. A correctly set up clutch driven well will last well over twice that distance.
Lift when you shift! The secret to a long clutch life is not to put power through the clutch while it is in the friction zone. Do this and your clutch life should be around 100K miles.
Absolutely. Either there is a driving technique issue, an underlying problem or poor initial setup which has the result of such poor clutch life...
Kevlar (TM) for aramid fiber is known for it's modulus ( lack of stretch or distortion ) and for it's low weight to strength, but is not any better than a lot of fibers when it comes to wear / abrasion ( actually worse ) , which is what a clutch surface is all about... other than a marketing tool ( read more profit ) , using Kevlar in a clutch does not make any sense... what am I missing...
A majority of the issue is that I live in downtown LA... Traffic is stop and go 99% of the time... Before I moved out here and it was normal driving conditions I was obtaining substantially higher clutch lifes. Short on time right now but thank you kindly for the replies, I will read more thoroughly later today.
The hi-Tech kevlar clutches have gone through extensive R&D. They recalibrate the pressure plate to manipulate modulation and have taken the time to do this multiple times. They have literllay installed the clutch, made ntoes, pulled it out, made changes and reinstalled...until it work correctly. I don't believe anyone has done that for the Ferrari. Most fo these Kevlar clutch companies are simply refacing the clutches and trying to use different material compositions to make them work like a stock unit.
I do not understand the need to lift off the throttle when shifting in a drive by wire car such as the 360 and 430. Isn't the computer controlling all of these aspects?
Throttle lifting just seems so ... boring... haha! Ok so I read both links, thank you kindly for those by the way. Tried to get through the first but it just turned into a **** show of people arguing. Second one did catch my eye. What setting do you guys have your manettino on? Apparently I should go to race... quicker shifts = less clutch wear?
All but one; Whiloe it does cut the ignition to reduc the strain on the driveline durring the shift, it does not fleather the throttle like a real driver can. The choice is yours, lift when you shift, or replace the clutch more often.
Mich, I know what you are saying is true on the 355 F1 and I am not 100% positive on the 360, but the 430 and 458 both feather the throttle and change ignition timing on up-shifts. On Challenge cars you can set up a channel to watch it. The data software has a cute name for it, like "flutter" or something When we were mapping our SCCA 430's this is an area we spent some time on. I think excessive clutch wear is more likely poor initial point set up or lots of stop and go driving rather than full throttle up-shifts.
Sorry Mitch, no offense but just not correct. Throttle is controlled entirely by the TCU during shifts in the 360 and 430 F1 cars so lifting to shift has absolutely no positive affect on clutch wear. The only result of lifting to shift in those cars is to confuse the TCU. If there is any affect on clutch wear from lifting, it would be to increase it (although likely still negligible). Virtually all clutch wear in the F1 cars is a result of either (1) initial clutch setup, or (2) driver technique at starting from stopped. That means driver technique has a huge influence on clutch life but not from lifting to shift. Driving in stop-and-go traffic gives maximum opportunity to mess up your clutch if its not done correctly. Here is one of many threads discussing issues related to F1 clutch life and proper technique: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316605
Feedback on exotic clutch materials (e.g., Kevlar, carbon fiber, etc.) in F1 360s and 430s has been extremely mixed. The people selling them say they work great. People actually installing them seem to have more sanguine results. The exotic clutches all have significantly different coefficients of surface friction so the cars always drive quite differently than with an OEM clutch. Apparently that usually translates into spotty results unless the TCU is re-programmed to match the friction characteristics of the new clutch plate. Also, with many reports of well over 50K miles from OEM clutches (assuming proper installation and driving technique of course), its not clear an exotic clutch is worth all the trouble.
Looks like I will just be staying away from the exotics! Not worth the hassle. 50K miles on a clutch seems well... impossible! I think the most I have ever gotten was 24K? And that was where I was getting dumped into N non stop
are you enjoying your ride ? If yes, then does it really matter if the clutch goes before someone else. You are harder on a clutch than others, the bottom line is that the car is working for you. You could change your driving style, but that could take away from the fun factor. Enjoying a F car is not about pinching a few dollars.
Oh goodness not about pinching a few dollars at all. I have a few F cars this is the only one with a dry clutch and that I can use as a daily driver or a modern line up model. Last clutch change took over a week for some reason at a major dealership. Wasn't a fan of having to use one of my other vehicles for a week. Like I said earlier, feathering off of the throttle doesn't sound fun at all! All about enjoying the vehicle.
Hello guys, I spoke with a my friend and told me that these kevlar clutches will male me shift faster and it losts 300% longer than a Ferrari OEM clutch... Is it true? Can anyone confirm his claim? Thanks!
I don't see how it can possibly increase the shift speed. Maybe the feeling of shift speed but not the actual speed. Suggestions of 300% longer lasting are, I suspect, complete estimates, even fabrication. Personally I'd go with OEM clutch. There's nothing wrong with them and they last a perfectly acceptably long time if set up correctly and driven with mechanical sympathy.
There should be a better heat transfer, so a quicker gear change after 8000 rpm (as my friend said). His words. I was only trying to figure out the REAL difference between them and if it is worth or not Sent from my F430 using Tapatalk.
They gave me info about a company who produces those clutches, I don't know if I can post links. I'll contact them and see what happen! Sent from my F430 using Tapatalk.
I "grenaded" a new OEM disc in my '85 Mondial Cab-EuroSpec on the race track. Carolina Motor Sports Park, Kershaw SC: Carolina MotorSports Park A very nice little road course. The clutch was virtually new, < 2kmiles on it. It was after several outings, so not sure how much @ or near redline time was on it. Fortunately I was slowing on the front straight and when the clutch would no longer release, I was able to get on the brakes and make it into the pit lane. After talking to a LOT of vendors, they told me they only would sell the OEM disc as the aftermarket discs were exploding - huh? Anyway, I found this place in Ontario Canada: Home and a bought a rebuilt disc of a kevlar composite for about 1/2 the OEM price. It's green and smells funny .. ;-) They claim it's good to 18,000 RPM - old F1 revs. I've not had the car on the track since - long story - but it's held up fine since install. YMMV - but I'd at least give them a call - they seemed VERY knowledgeable. I know this is a whole other animal, just wanted to let you know these guys exist and have at least ONE happy customer. Cheers, Frank
