360 P1324 Code | FerrariChat

360 P1324 Code

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by kommons, Apr 22, 2014.

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  1. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    P1324 Code popped after changing timing belts. I believe this code relates to bad cam timing on RH bank.

    Considering what I remember, I think I maybe have skipped a tooth or slipped exhaust cam on that bank during installation. The exhaust note is different on that side, the car starts very quietly as well. (I acknowledge I failed to make markings, etc on that bank. I had it lined up at the rear cam end caps and just didn't think, other side went perfectly as I marked old and new belt)

    Is the only way to correct it by degree*ing that cam?

    Looking at the end caps now, the exhaust one isn't as close to the line as the others, but to know it's precise location is now an unknown. I would appreciate any advice.
     
  2. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Charleston, SC
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    Curt
    Looks like it bro. While not specified specifically in the codes, looks like Bank 1. I'd set it at TDC per the crank and bank 2, then Readjust as needed. I'd even consider taking off the valve covers and using the valve height to indicate your position relative to the piston if needed. I presume you didn't loosen the bolts on the camshaft sprockets... Shouldn't be that hard I wouldn't think. I'd even mark the cam sprockets and work from there.. the question is exhaust or intake.. hmm.... nicely done BTW with the new belts!
     
  3. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    So I went back in, removed end caps, put marks on driving pulley and block. Removed belt and adjusted Exhaust cam closer to the alignment marks.

    I rested the belt on top of both cams then rotated the driving pulley to match the belt teeth returning it to its original position based on the mark I put on the block.

    Restarted the car, code is gone and the exhaust note is less burbly.

    It still doesn't "roar" when I start it but I'm hoping timing is ok enough to drive and I will plan to degree both banks later.
     
  4. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 25, 2005
    8,683
    Campbell, CA
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    John Zornes
    You understand that the belts are tensioned using a frequency gauge AND that they stretch in during the tensioning process. They are not reusable because they won't tension correctly again. At least not without a degree of risk and the downside is huge.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
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    Brian Crall
    If the cam timing is off and you drive it, it will probably destroy the cats. If your car has precats in the manifolds it will take out the motor. Only a mistimed exhaust cam with set a CEL so lack of that is a false sense of security.

    None of this is theory. I have made a lot of money fixing cars with exactly that set of circumstances. I just threw away a set of destroyed pistons from the last one I fixed. You really don't want his bill.
     
  6. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    Curt
    Can I have a set as a paperweight? I'll pay shipping!
     
  7. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Thanks for the advice:

    SkidKid - While I agree on the tensioning process. I do have a sonic tension meter by the way. My understanding is that the stretching cannot be that substantial because that could affect the timing itself. Secondly after pulling old belt and matching to new belt, there was no distinction in the alignment on their teeth. Maybe I'm taking a risk here, but it seems not so severe. Can you please explain a little more? Not judging, just trying to learn.

    Rifledriver - I agree with your statement fully. I ran the car for a little while and with an infrared thermometer, I monitored temperature of both precats and both cats as the car warmed up. I then continued to monitor them after a short drive and more idling. There are just 1-3 degrees differences between each. Is there another way for me to see that the timing could be substantially wrong? I intend to degree both banks a little later, but it appears to me that it really isn't off, perhaps a minuscule amount.

    Again, I'm not trying to be defensive and rather learn from your experience based on the additional observations I'm providing.
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall

    Performing that procedure absolutely requires you know where you were to at least meet the minimum standard of getting back there. Horse is out of the barn, you don't know where you were. It is now tome to start from zero.

    Park the car until that can be done.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Dumpster is long gone.
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,395
    Texas!
    You know, we all in up in the dumpster at some point.

    Dale
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    But there is a difference between head first and feet first.


    I endeavor to delay feet first for a bit yet.
     
  12. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Darn!
     
  13. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    794
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    Here is a video of degreeing the cams on my car...

    It is basically a two-man job... One is rotating the crankshaft and the other is watching the dials...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbf9N-I65S4&list=UU2R2_PEpqjY8YeazWPlmVZw]Ferrari 360 timing - YouTube[/ame]

    Document your procedure and post pics if you'd like... Good luck !!

    (P.S. Skidkid is right about re-tensioning the camshaft belts... It's not a good thing to do, but if you do it just once I guess you are fine...)
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Degreeing is a one person job.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Chris- I would flatbed her to someone who really knows what they are doing and let them start over. No sense turning $3K into $20K.
     
  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Not everyone is as talented with a wrench as you are Mr. Crall! :)

    I by every means base this on myself.
     
  17. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    794
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    MD
    Sure it's a one person job, if you pull the engine out of the car !!!
    Try doing it with engine in-place by yourself... ;-)
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I have...many times.
     
  19. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
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    MD
    Ok, I respect that !!!
    I would be curious to know how...
    If you don't mind, can you elaborate ?
    Thanks !
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
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    Brian Crall
    Put a degree wheel on the front of the motor and set up a dial indicator on the head in a fashion that it can be read from inside the car. My magnetic dial indicator bases were all too high so I cut one down short enough to fit.
     
  21. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    794
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    That sounds cool !! Thanks for your explanation
     
  22. kommons

    kommons Karting

    Sep 30, 2013
    215
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Thanks for the advice. I will go ahead and degree the cam and learn from the mistake.

    Do you guys have recommendations on degree wheels? What's the biggest size that fits? It looks like I may order a 10". Additionally, good mounting locations/hardware for the indicators?. Everything being aluminum, my magnetic base seems useless. I will order another dial indicator so I can

    Regarding timing belt re-tensioning. I cannot find anything on the manual saying it cannot be re-tensioned. I wrote an e-mail to Dayco asking about those kevlar belts as well and what their take is on it. I also saw this ferrari bulletin suggestion to re-use a timing belt after a variator change.

    Snip :

    "Note: If a timing belt service was already performed within the last 2 years or 20,000 miles
    and the later style variators and belt tensioner were not installed at that time, the later parts
    must be installed, the timing belt can be reused and the procedure in the attached bulletin
    followed."

    Link - http://www.ricambiamerica.com/images/TSB1232_SC97.pdf
     
  23. MD355

    MD355 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
    794
    Athens, Greece
    Full Name:
    MD
    Can anyone recommend a degree wheel that fits in the 360 engine compartment (through the firewall) ?

    Any links to purchase from ebay or any other sites are welcome !

    Thanks !
     
  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,344
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    I use a fairly large one I sourced from summit racing.
     
  25. TuttoBene

    TuttoBene Karting

    Sep 6, 2020
    65
    Full Name:
    Doug
    How did this story end? Did you retime your engine and get the code to go away? Asking for a friend...
     

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