360CS Starting issue.... Anybody like puzzles?

I have been chasing a 'hot start' problem in this car for a few years. The car would not restart (only solenoid click) after running the car for 15-20 minutes. Only after cooling down would the car start. The starter was replaced.... no change in symptoms. Starter relay was replaced..... no change. Recently, the alternator failed. After looking at a parts manual, I saw that a wire harness (213155) covers the starter and alternator as well as AC. I reasoned that in my earlier Ferraris (TR, 348) that developed 'hot start' issues, the problem was due to deteriorating wires that due to heat created increase resistance, dropping voltage, hence the problem. While replacing the alternator, I also replaced the harness. There are now different symptoms... Now the car will start and run fine from cold. Whether the car runs for 10 seconds or 5 hours, the car can be turned off and if a restart is attempted it does the following: With the finger continuously on the start button it cranks-stops-cranks-stops-cranks-stops and refuses to start. If it does start, it will be in 'limp mode' or half the engine will be running. The only code that came up as pending was 'crank position sensors'. I replaced them and that made no change. We are currently checking the battery (fine) and all grounds, but I doubt any of this will help. Has anyone seen a similar problem, or point me in the right direction to find a solution? I have spoken with a number of techs and nobody has heard of a 360/CS with a similar issue. Thanks in advance.

 

This is turning into much more of a puzzle than I really like. I much prefer driving!

We currently have every ground exposed and are cleaning and reconnecting them.

We did a test with a testing light at the power connection of the new harness. When the crank-stop-crank-stop, etc is going on, the test light would just go on and off. To me this means that problem isn't downstream from the cable.... starter.....alternator, it must be upstream. The only thing I can think of that sends the OK are the ECU's. I hate replacing parts and hoping, if you know what I mean.

 

It would be nice to have a complete schematic of this car's electrical system, but nobody seems to have one (that they will share).

I was hoping that you may chime in. Thank you. When you say "corrupted CAN signal", does that mean the ECU itself is damaged? Or is it the software?

 

When I swap them, if the problem clears up, will the original driver's side or the passenger side need either replacing or reprogramming?

Thanks again for your help.

 

The only electrical diagram I have is one I found in the parts area on ricambi's site.
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Thanks Kevin.

 

I'm getting ready to swap ECUs and saw what appears like someone put an extra ground on the ECUs. If you look at the pic, there is a wire with a yellow band on it, attached to the frame via a bolt with red paint on it. It attached to a bolt on the ECU. Both sides have them. They look aftermarket to me. Does anyone know for sure if it's an add on and why would someone add that?
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It just doesn't look like its factory to me, but I could be wrong!


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We are checking the plethora of grounds on the car. While doing this, we took the ECU's out.

It looks like the right hand side (passenger) has not been out prior to this. The left hand ECU looks like someone may have been troubleshooting something at some point. Someone wrote "cold start" on it. I've never had a cold start issue, just a hot start.

There was nothing in the service records about it being a 'problem child'.
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No Joy!

Here's the status....

Removed ECU's and had them checked. The one with the writing on it had a few challenges reading, etc, but was deemed acceptable.

I put them back in the car in original positions...... no start, immediately crank-stop-crank-stop, etc

We then swapped sides with the ECU's...... no start, immediately crank-stop-crank-stop, etc.

After some choice words (in Italian of course), I pulled a couple of pending codes:

P1538
P1199

In the Modena manual for codes the 1199 states "Altitude factor too low", and 1538 states nothing.

Are we to the point of thinking bad ECU? Could the immobilizer be involved?

 

After removing the ECU's again, a closer inspection of the ECU that had obviously been removed in the past showed a pin that was bent.

I have another ECU coming to replace this one. We will clone the software from the old and put it on the new.

I like puzzles, but enough is enough!
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Not yet. I need some small pliers to get in there. Plus, there is no way this has been bent for a long time. There has to be a problem with the ECU itself.


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