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  #41  
Old 05-07-2017, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by INTMD8 View Post
All of the above is incorrect.
Should the injector be injecting the correct quantity of fuel and the offending cylinder/cylinders drawing the correct amount of air than the "cylinder/cylinders" will be seeing the correct air/fuel ratio.

Now, if you have an ignition misfire the wideband will be seeing an untrue lean mixture since the engine is essentially pumping air and unburnt fuel into the exhaust.

Would you consider running on a dyno and measuring hydrocarbons as well first? This might help to isolate ignition misfire problems, before heading down the costly and time consuming injector path.
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  #42  
Old 05-08-2017, 08:14 AM
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SO I ran the rpms up higher past 4200 to 6000 rpms. Now if it was a lean issue on my race cars (I do a lot of dyno testing etc...) from lack of fuel, the misfire should get progressively worse and many times turn into an intake manifold backfire as rpms increase... but instead, it stays exactly the same and is an amazingly consistent and controlled misfire or ignition interrupt.

Question 1: Does the Ferrari engine management have the ability to interrupt ignition to protect the engine from damage in a lean situation OR is it a bad coil or ???

It sounds the same out the exhaust no matter the rpm or throttle position. A steady rhythm. It just sounds so ignition based.

Question 2: Cylinder # 2 (identified as a P0302 code), where is it located?

Is it the passenger side front?
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  #43  
Old 05-08-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy 355 View Post
Now, if you have an ignition misfire the wideband will be seeing an untrue lean mixture since the engine is essentially pumping air and unburnt fuel into the exhaust.
Now you got it
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  #44  
Old 05-08-2017, 03:20 PM
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So it doesnt get lost in the shuffle, IF ANYONE KNOWS these answers it will really help get the situation pointed in the right direction.

Question 1: Does the Ferrari engine management have the ability to interrupt ignition to protect the engine from damage in a lean situation.

If not it could be a bad coil or ??? as it sounds the same out the exhaust no matter the rpm or throttle position. A steady rhythm. It just sounds so ignition based.

Question 2: Cylinder # 2 (identified as a P0302 code), where is it located?

Is it the passenger side front?
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  #45  
Old 05-08-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO SYSTEMS View Post
So it doesnt get lost in the shuffle, IF ANYONE KNOWS these answers it will really help get the situation pointed in the right direction.

Question 1: Does the Ferrari engine management have the ability to interrupt ignition to protect the engine from damage in a lean situation.

If not it could be a bad coil or ??? as it sounds the same out the exhaust no matter the rpm or throttle position. A steady rhythm. It just sounds so ignition based.

Question 2: Cylinder # 2 (identified as a P0302 code), where is it located?

Is it the passenger side front?
How close are you to Texas?

GT
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  #46  
Old 05-08-2017, 05:32 PM
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Hi there.

Question one: Sorry I don't know how Ferrari has programmed the Ecu to respond to certain situations, however, you can use an oscilloscope to test the ignition outputs to prove if the signal is changing Above 4200rpm and 50% throttle.

Question two: it may be possible to remove the wiring to the coil you suspect is number two, turn the ignition on and have a code for that cylinder being open circuit. Confirm that code identifies cyl number 2.

I hope there is some help here.
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  #47  
Old 05-09-2017, 01:02 AM
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Any shop with a Ferrari diagnostic tool or good aftermarket software (like AutoEnginuity) should be able to find the problem if they know how to use them and properly interpret the results. Otherwise, you'll be just guessing.

If the dealer says it's an engine out procedure check the factory manual (available online) to see if there's another procedure. Ive found many procedures in the 458 manual that most dealers conveniently don't even know exist!
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  #48  
Old 05-09-2017, 01:28 AM
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Note: the spark plugs on the 458 and California are special "ion sensing" plugs. They work in conjunction with the anti-detonation ECU to sense detonation and alter timing accordingly. I can't see how the system could pull enough timing to create such a hard misfire on one cylinder but possibly.
That's why you need somone to data log all the pertinent parameters in real time during the miss fire to home in on the real issue.
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  #49  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by maxvonauto View Post
Note: the spark plugs on the 458 and California are special "ion sensing" plugs. They work in conjunction with the anti-detonation ECU to sense detonation and alter timing accordingly. I can't see how the system could pull enough timing to create such a hard misfire on one cylinder but possibly.
That's why you need somone to data log all the pertinent parameters in real time during the miss fire to home in on the real issue.
The California T and 458 have Eldor Ion ignition systems, which senses detonation through the spark plug. The older non-turbo California does not have this system. It has Bosch motronic with regular knock sensors bolted to the engine block..
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  #50  
Old 05-10-2017, 07:55 AM
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California misfire at 4200 rpm on up

.

Last edited by 360+Volt=Prius; 05-10-2017 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Mistake
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  #51  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO SYSTEMS View Post
So it doesnt get lost in the shuffle, IF ANYONE KNOWS these answers it will really help get the situation pointed in the right direction.

Question 1: Does the Ferrari engine management have the ability to interrupt ignition to protect the engine from damage in a lean situation.

If not it could be a bad coil or ??? as it sounds the same out the exhaust no matter the rpm or throttle position. A steady rhythm. It just sounds so ignition based.

Question 2: Cylinder # 2 (identified as a P0302 code), where is it located?

Is it the passenger side front?
The Ferrari engine management will shut off the injector to a cylinder that has a bad misfire to keep raw fuel from being injected into a cylinder that might not have spark and go into the catalyst. I do not think that it will shut off the spark to a cylinder during a lean condition.

Cylinder number #2 is the second cylinder on the RF. (passenger side) of the engine. The wire to the #2 ignition coil will have a #2 silver sticker on it.

You do not have to remove the engine in order to replace the fuel injectors. The trim panels around the engine come off, the engine upper crossmember is removed, then the intake manifold is removed and the fuel injector rails are under the intake manifold. It is not that hard to replace them.

Note: You can listen to the #2 injector with a mechanics stethoscope to see if it is firing/clicking through an opening in the right side of the manifold.

Due to the pressures involved, Ferrari states that the injectors must not be removed from the fuel rail and are sold only complete with the rail, but ricambi shows them as being available separately.
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  #52  
Old 05-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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To replace an individual injector all you need is new seals at both ends of the injector. Both are standard Bosch parts and will be changed if you send the injector(s) out for cleaning and test (both electrical and flow). Just about every FI cleaning service can do passenger car Direct Injection injections now, it's not rocket science.

I've tried to order individual injectors and they're always back ordered with no delivery date. However, unless they are dead electrically they'll clean up 99% of the time. The next choice would be a used rail off eBay, then clean. There are two different injectors in the engine depending on the cylinder. The only difference I can see is that the tiny exit orifaces are clocked differently to allow the particular injector to be installed with the harness connector at the designed position. They are marked A and B.

The factory will do injector testing to calibrate each new injector and sort them accordingly. They try and match calibrations for each rail to ensure that the fuel trims are within spec. In some cases, cal data for each injector is programmed into the ECU so it can be used to bias that particular injector. That's why Ferrari will tell you they only want to sell complete rails.
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  #53  
Old 05-19-2017, 12:28 PM
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Great info!! Thanks.
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