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  #1  
Old 04-30-2017, 10:04 AM
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California misfire at 4200 rpm on up

I have a misfire in my 15,000 mile 2010 California only at heavy throttle at 4200 rpm on up.

The dealer (they seem sharp) says its an injector OR two that are clogged on one bank. BUT its a HARD misfire I am struggling to believe it and they don;t seem confident enough to sell it to me as "the fix" to my problem.

Its a hard mis, like an ignition miss. The system reads lean when its happening (ignition misfires can also show a lean reading) and fuel pressure is rock solid.

I am unfamiliar with Direct injection, but typically misfires from being lean wouldnt be so aggressive of a hit on the misfire (this feels like AND sounds like a rev limiter/ignition interrupter...but it allows the engine rpms to climb). Also it happens at EXACTLY 4200 rpm on up everytime when you are beyond 4200 rpm.

If you run the engine below half throttle it will run real high on rpms without a miss.

Only under heavy throttle do you get the violent miss.

Ideas anyone?

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2017, 01:46 PM
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Sounds like one or two of the injectors are not spraying enough fuel.
At part throttle, the engine needs less fuel, so the injector seems up to the task.

As to the 4200 EXACTLY, if you could position your car on top of Pikes Peak and drive at full throttle, at those low pressures, the misfire should occur at higher RPMs.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:23 PM
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What does the memory say? The self diagnosis is extremely good at picking up a miss. It will pick up a miss that you cannot feel.

If you have an injector problem there are other recorded engine parameters that will show supporting evidence.

Last edited by Rifledriver; 04-30-2017 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:26 PM
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The only reason I don't think its an injector issue is:

Anything above 1/2 throttle causes the issue to occur at exactly 4200 rpms on up.

We know there is a difference in fuel volume delivered from 60 percent throttle to 100 percent throttle.

So if its an injector partially plugged problem, RPM should be irrelevant. Fuel volume requested should be what will CHANGE the rpm that the miss occurs.

At 60 percent throttle and 4000 rpms lets say I am asking for 250 h.p. in fuel. BUT at 100 percent throttle and 4000 rpms I may be asking for 300 h.p. in fuel volume.

Neither throttle position will create a miss until the engine hits exactly 4200 rpms.


Its always a HARD miss at exactly 4200 rpm (it doesnt sneak up and get bad...its instant like a rev limiter at exactly 4200 rpms) on up any time the throttle is above 1/2 way.

NO change in throttle position (fuel demand) will raise or lower the 4200 RPM on up miss UNTIL you get set throttle position at below 50 percent on the throttle. Then the rpms will climb easily and without a miss.
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2017, 06:35 PM
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Codes set:

P0302 Cylinder # 2 Misfire detected
P0300 Random Multi cylinder misfire detected
P1572 Immobilizer Malfunction Bank 2 (invalid Signal)
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Old 04-30-2017, 06:46 PM
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It's the injectors. A have replaced many for the exact same reason you describe. The injectors are not sold individually you must by the entire rail with the 4 injectors. It's a very well known issue with the 2010 cars.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:12 PM
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Get it diagnosed with a diagnostic tool designed to do exactly that on the California. If you do not have a diagnostic tool that works on late model Ferraris, take it to a reliable Ferrari shop that does. Whatever it is, diagnosing it on the internet is pretty much impossible.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:13 AM
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Hi Terry, I took it to the Dealer and have pages of inconclusive data. They just feel its "probably" the injectors. But at $8500.00 its my gamble if they are wrong.

tbakowsky,

1. Why didnt someone clean the injectors instead of replace?

2. Are they carboned at the tip causing the failure (why not just clean them)?

3. Is it an internal issue with the injector that is causing the failure (hence the reason for replacement)?

Thanks in advance for your insight and time.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:44 AM
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Check to plugs. Shut the engine down straight after the misfire. read the plugs. Could this be done on a chassis dyno?
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2017, 06:22 AM
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Have you tried some fuel injector cleaner in the petrol tank before you start tearing it to bits, my mondial used to cut out coming up to a t junction. Mine was not direct injection but its the same principle. Best to put this stuff into a low level tank. We have redex petrol injector cleaner, or winns etc.
Its not going to do any harm so worth a go.
If it was blocked you would be a cylinder down so it sounds like it is sticking
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike32 View Post
Have you tried some fuel injector cleaner in the petrol tank before you start tearing it to bits, my mondial used to cut out coming up to a t junction. Mine was not direct injection but its the same principle. Best to put this stuff into a low level tank. We have redex petrol injector cleaner, or winns etc.
Its not going to do any harm so worth a go.
If it was blocked you would be a cylinder down so it sounds like it is sticking
Ah seafoam. Good old seafoam. .

Have you called the recyclers and looked for a used injector to test? Not sure what parts equivalent is.
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PRO SYSTEMS View Post
Hi Terry, I took it to the Dealer and have pages of inconclusive data. They just feel its "probably" the injectors. But at $8500.00 its my gamble if they are wrong.

tbakowsky,

1. Why didnt someone clean the injectors instead of replace?

2. Are they carboned at the tip causing the failure (why not just clean them)?

3. Is it an internal issue with the injector that is causing the failure (hence the reason for replacement)?

Thanks in advance for your insight and time.
If there is an injector problem it will show up in the fuel trim numbers.

It is time for a second opinion. The guys you are using are either not up to the job or are being prevented from doing it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 08:01 AM
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So is the P0302 code denoting a misfire in cylinder #2 identifying the cylinder as being located in the Passenger side front location of the engine?
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:10 AM
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Just be aware the misfiring cylinder could be another. The ECM uses the Crankshaft Position Sensor to identify the misfiring culprit (looks for a slowdown) and sometimes its wrong on which cylinder. Scope the Secondary Waveforms to see if its firing in the cylinder rich or lean. Interested in the pages of data to justify an 8500$ fix. Since its at exactly 4200 rpm look hard at Variable Valve Timing. As mentioned above, its time to go somewhere else.
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  #15  
Old 05-01-2017, 10:04 AM
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AD170, we are on the same page... the fact it hits at EXACTLY 4200 rpm every time NEVER below 4200, points towards an computer controlled system of some sort. It seems a malfunctioning injector would not be rpm related but fuel volume related... it seems.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by vrsurgeon View Post
Ah seafoam. Good old seafoam. .

Have you called the recyclers and looked for a used injector to test? Not sure what parts equivalent is.
I take it seafoam is your version of injector cleaner ? Not heard of that one
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Old 05-01-2017, 12:38 PM
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There have been problems with direct injection systems coking up the cylinder heads, but no way that would cause a persistent misfire at exactly the same rpm every time.
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  #18  
Old 05-01-2017, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tazandjan View Post
There have been problems with direct injection systems coking up the cylinder heads, but no way that would cause a persistent misfire at exactly the same rpm every time.
I agree but having the injectors cleaned and tested is not a huge expense. I understand the dealer being reluctant to promote that but I would do it to cover the base.

In general though this does not sound like a mixture issue.
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  #19  
Old 05-01-2017, 04:00 PM
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Brian- I agree. Had mine cleaned last time we changed cambelts. Not sure if it is any more involved on the direct injection Ferraris or not. Usually $20-30 per injector (plus labor and shipping) for the port injection, but not sure about direct.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2017, 06:20 PM
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re injector cleaners... cleaners are preventative maintainance... they are effective at preventing clogs, once clogged, injector cleaners do not work ( think about it... for the cleaner to work there must be fuel flow, when clogged there is NO or limited fuel flow )... you can give the cleaners a try, just in case there may be enough flow to get some cleaning started, ultimately time to clean/rebuild the injector and be sure to replace fuel filter... a fouled injector is unable to atomize the fuel... failing injectors form large droplets of fuel, which are slow to burn completely... leading to other problems from poor running
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